Re: General Election 8th June : Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:16 am  

LifeLongHKRFan wrote:

So what you are saying is if you give the wealthy more money, they may throw some crumbs down to the working classes? I'd rather any government force them to pay their way then leave it up to the wealthy to do whats right for the people of this country

That's not what he his saying, it's your interpretation of that. Meanwhile unpalatable as it seems ,Labour failed to win enough seats to form a government. That's democracy. Just remember that labour fought an effective campaign against a shockingly poor Tory one. Highly unlikely that situation will be allowed again.
Whilst this side show of an election was unfolding ,the French and Germans reiterated the hard stance they will undertake in the brexit negotiations. We are in for some extremely turbulent times.

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:22 am  

Backwoodsman wrote:

That's not what he his saying, it's your interpretation of that. Meanwhile unpalatable as it seems ,Labour failed to win enough seats to form a government. That's democracy. Just remember that labour fought an effective campaign against a shockingly poor Tory one. Highly unlikely that situation will be allowed again.
Whilst this side show of an election was unfolding ,the French and Germans reiterated the hard stance they will undertake in the brexit negotiations. We are in for some extremely turbulent times.

I know the election result and TBH as far as i'm concerned it could be the worse result for the economy. If TM had fought a better campaign then we wouldn't be still talking about it. However she didn't and we've just got to make the best of what we had. Just remember, it was the Tories who called the Brexit referendum so if negotiations go tits up then they are to blame, no one else. If only they listened to peoples concerns not only before this election but before the referendum instead of their rich pals.

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:19 am  

bren2k wrote:

He wants to tax corporations at rates that would still be lower than 2010 - and at a rate that would still be the lowest in the G7; how many times do I have to repeat this before you actually read and understand it?

With regard to personal taxation - almost half the electorate voted for him; I don't believe for a minute that every single one of them was a member of the undeserving poor. There are actually people who can see the bigger picture and are prepared to make personal sacrifices for the greater good - the idiots.

What is clear is that there is appetite for change - and as long as the Maybot maintains her position of squatting in no 10 and rotating the same bunch of idiots who helped create this mess, propped up by a soupcon of regressive Orangemen, change is what we will get.

It is like bashing your head against a brick wall. Why do you think they reduced CT and the top level of personal taxation? They did it to increase the tax take - which - as unpalatable as it is to you - did exactly what it was intended to do i.e. tax take went up.

Why do you think reversing that policy will yield the results you think - oh yes its because all these companies are suddenly going to turn altruistic - and get the bigger picture!! you are truly delusional.

Do you really think there is an appetite for change - students came out to vote for their own benefit not because they also got the bigger picture. No reduction in tuition fees no younger vote. They were just reacting to a bribe if the Tories had offered the same they would have got the vote.

Do you honestly think there is an appetite for re-nationalisation, support for terrorists, great power for unions, increased borrowing to increase the salaries of public servants - possibly from the unions and the public servants?

May was a disaster but it should be short term, she makes Osborne look like a political giant - if Corbyn got in the detrimental impact of his strategy could take decades to put right

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:33 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

It is like bashing your head against a brick wall. Why do you think they reduced CT and the top level of personal taxation? They did it to increase the tax take - which - as unpalatable as it is to you - did exactly what it was intended to do i.e. tax take went up.

Why do you think reversing that policy will yield the results you think - oh yes its because all these companies are suddenly going to turn altruistic - and get the bigger picture!! you are truly delusional.

Do you really think there is an appetite for change - students came out to vote for their own benefit not because they also got the bigger picture. No reduction in tuition fees no younger vote. They were just reacting to a bribe if the Tories had offered the same they would have got the vote.

Do you honestly think there is an appetite for re-nationalisation, support for terrorists, great power for unions, increased borrowing to increase the salaries of public servants - possibly from the unions and the public servants?

May was a disaster but it should be short term, she makes Osborne look like a political giant - if Corbyn got in the detrimental impact of his strategy could take decades to put right

Although it does seem bizarre, I agree with you on "tax take" as the exchequer did receive higher revenues on a lower top rate.
However, you then go on to mention "support for terrorists".

Why is it ok for Mrs May to make "an agreement" with the DUP but not ok for Corbyn to talk to some of the people that he has allegedly spoken to in the past.

The DUP seem little different to Sinn Fein and yet, they will now hold the balance of power.
It, quite simply, is not right.

The current set up is clearly not going to last and the sooner that Mrs May has the sense to realise this and either steps down or, better still, calls another GE, the better for all of us.

THe Brexit clock is ticking and Mrs "strong and stable" May is now putting her own personal situation above the needs of the country.

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:53 am  

Sal Paradise wrote: It is like bashing your head against a brick wall. Why do you think they reduced CT and the top level of personal taxation? They did it to increase the tax take - which - as unpalatable as it is to you - did exactly what it was intended to do i.e. tax take went up. It really is. For your delight and delectation, here are the facts, which I know you're not a fan of; it's a rather more nuanced picture than you desperately try to portray. With regard to overall tax take, it's fluctuated between 35-38% of GDP since 1997. And just a note on the myth that Corbyn's plans would plunge us into crippling debt; this data would suggest otherwise. I can't even begin to address the irony of your stupid terrorist comment, other than to remind you that Mrs May is now a hostage to the DUP. The DUP who, according to Wikpedia: "During the Troubles, the DUP opposed attempts to resolve the conflict that would involve sharing power with Irish nationalists/republicans, and rejected attempts to involve the Republic of Ireland in Northern Ireland affairs. It campaigned against the Sunningdale Agreement of 1974, the Anglo-Irish Agreement of 1985, and the Good Friday Agreement of 1998. In the 1980s, the party was involved in attempts to create a paramilitary movement, which culminated in Ulster Resistance." And for good measure, is: "...socially conservative: it is anti-abortion, opposes same-sex marriage, and formerly campaigned against the legalisation of homosexual acts in Northern Ireland."

Sal Paradise wrote: It is like bashing your head against a brick wall. Why do you think they reduced CT and the top level of personal taxation? They did it to increase the tax take - which - as unpalatable as it is to you - did exactly what it was intended to do i.e. tax take went up. It really is. For your delight and delectation, here are the facts, which I know you're not a fan of; it's a rather more nuanced picture than you desperately try to portray. With regard to overall tax take, it's fluctuated between 35-38% of GDP since 1997. And just a note on the myth that Corbyn's plans would plunge us into crippling debt; this data would suggest otherwise. I can't even begin to address the irony of your stupid terrorist comment, other than to remind you that Mrs May is now a hostage to the DUP. The DUP who, according to Wikpedia: "During the Troubles, the DUP opposed attempts to resolve the conflict that would involve sharing power with Irish nationalists/republicans, and rejected attempts to involve the Republic of Ireland in Northern Ireland affairs. It campaigned against the Sunningdale Agreement of 1974, the Anglo-Irish Agreement of 1985, and the Good Friday Agreement of 1998. In the 1980s, the party was involved in attempts to create a paramilitary movement, which culminated in Ulster Resistance." And for good measure, is: "...socially conservative: it is anti-abortion, opposes same-sex marriage, and formerly campaigned against the legalisation of homosexual acts in Northern Ireland."

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:44 pm  

The DUP ladies and gentlemen http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2017/dup-man-celebrated-election-with-photo-of-terror-group-flag-in-downing-street-35814566.html

The DUP ladies and gentlemen http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2017/dup-man-celebrated-election-with-photo-of-terror-group-flag-in-downing-street-35814566.html

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:49 pm  

bren2k wrote: It really is. For your delight and delectation, here are the facts, which I know you're not a fan of; it's a rather more nuanced picture than you desperately try to portray. With regard to overall tax take, it's fluctuated between 35-38% of GDP since 1997. And just a note on the myth that Corbyn's plans would plunge us into crippling debt; this data would suggest otherwise. I can't even begin to address the irony of your stupid terrorist comment, other than to remind you that Mrs May is now a hostage to the DUP. The DUP who, according to Wikpedia: "During the Troubles, the DUP opposed attempts to resolve the conflict that would involve sharing power with Irish nationalists/republicans, and rejected attempts to involve the Republic of Ireland in Northern Ireland affairs. It campaigned against the Sunningdale Agreement of 1974, the Anglo-Irish Agreement of 1985, and the Good Friday Agreement of 1998. In the 1980s, the party was involved in attempts to create a paramilitary movement, which culminated in Ulster Resistance." And for good measure, is: "...socially conservative: it is anti-abortion, opposes same-sex marriage, and formerly campaigned against the legalisation of homosexual acts in Northern Ireland." In 2016/17 the tax receipts from CT was 56bn an increase of 21% on the previous year - does that suggest to you there is a link between falling rates and increased take or are you still in denial? If you IFS they will say Corbyn's borrowing cannot be paid for by CT and taxing the rich - it is who do you believe? That level of borrowing is beyond anything we have seen in this country for decades - but hey keep believing. The DUP are not ideal bedfellows and some of their beliefs are not mine but then there are a host of religious MPs in all parties that I'm sure don't agree with abortion or same sex marriage. The leader of the Liberals for one - so their views are not way out David Ike stylee. Jeremy would have to bow down to Queen Nicola to get power - she doesn't even want to be in the union!! Let's face it the DUP were in the middle of a civil war - would you have trusted McGuiness and Adams in the 70's? Funnily enough Corbyn supported all their killing and maiming - nice guy, no wonder he is a pacifist now found his consunse!! Sinn Fein still has a military wing so why are you so concerned about the DUP having one? Its OK for the Catholics?

bren2k wrote: It really is. For your delight and delectation, here are the facts, which I know you're not a fan of; it's a rather more nuanced picture than you desperately try to portray. With regard to overall tax take, it's fluctuated between 35-38% of GDP since 1997. And just a note on the myth that Corbyn's plans would plunge us into crippling debt; this data would suggest otherwise. I can't even begin to address the irony of your stupid terrorist comment, other than to remind you that Mrs May is now a hostage to the DUP. The DUP who, according to Wikpedia: "During the Troubles, the DUP opposed attempts to resolve the conflict that would involve sharing power with Irish nationalists/republicans, and rejected attempts to involve the Republic of Ireland in Northern Ireland affairs. It campaigned against the Sunningdale Agreement of 1974, the Anglo-Irish Agreement of 1985, and the Good Friday Agreement of 1998. In the 1980s, the party was involved in attempts to create a paramilitary movement, which culminated in Ulster Resistance." And for good measure, is: "...socially conservative: it is anti-abortion, opposes same-sex marriage, and formerly campaigned against the legalisation of homosexual acts in Northern Ireland." In 2016/17 the tax receipts from CT was 56bn an increase of 21% on the previous year - does that suggest to you there is a link between falling rates and increased take or are you still in denial? If you IFS they will say Corbyn's borrowing cannot be paid for by CT and taxing the rich - it is who do you believe? That level of borrowing is beyond anything we have seen in this country for decades - but hey keep believing. The DUP are not ideal bedfellows and some of their beliefs are not mine but then there are a host of religious MPs in all parties that I'm sure don't agree with abortion or same sex marriage. The leader of the Liberals for one - so their views are not way out David Ike stylee. Jeremy would have to bow down to Queen Nicola to get power - she doesn't even want to be in the union!! Let's face it the DUP were in the middle of a civil war - would you have trusted McGuiness and Adams in the 70's? Funnily enough Corbyn supported all their killing and maiming - nice guy, no wonder he is a pacifist now found his consunse!! Sinn Fein still has a military wing so why are you so concerned about the DUP having one? Its OK for the Catholics?

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:53 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Although it does seem bizarre, I agree with you on "tax take" as the exchequer did receive higher revenues on a lower top rate.
However, you then go on to mention "support for terrorists".

Why is it ok for Mrs May to make "an agreement" with the DUP but not ok for Corbyn to talk to some of the people that he has allegedly spoken to in the past.

The DUP seem little different to Sinn Fein and yet, they will now hold the balance of power.
It, quite simply, is not right.

The current set up is clearly not going to last and the sooner that Mrs May has the sense to realise this and either steps down or, better still, calls another GE, the better for all of us.

THe Brexit clock is ticking and Mrs "strong and stable" May is now putting her own personal situation above the needs of the country.

The only way out is through no deal - if you stay in the single market you can't cut individual deals.

Better just accept its the WTO terms try and agree a borderless Ireland and move on.

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:54 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

It would OK for the SNP to hold the balance of power?

The only way out is through no deal - if you stay in the single market you can't cut individual deals.

Better just accept its the WTO terms try and agree a borderless Ireland and move on.

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:04 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Unfortunately, it's a long way from check mate for them.
There will be a few contenders, possible comeback for Gove or Fox and if all else fails they could make the country look even more foolish and go for, the Tory clown, Boris.

You can just imaging Boris and Trump in the same room.
Trump would threaten to nuke someone and Boris would laugh and make a joke out of it.

Trump and Corbyn...imagine that