Re: General Election 8th June : Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:37 pm  

PrinterThe wrote:

And on the other side of the coin not every person who voted for Conservative was just some rich person only worried about their wallet getting smaller. There are actually working class people who could see how the bigger long term picture of how bad Corbyn would have been even if others couldn't.

And no we don't need another newspaper link backing your view when you know it'd be easy to find links that told the opposite story.

For sure - there is a plurality of views; what I have a problem with is people who form their views on false information - of which Sal is a perfect example; soundbites and ill-informed repetition of a party line, without any enquiry or independent thought.

And you didn't click them either you dunderhead - one was a link to an FT analysis of why CT revenues went up last year, and the others weren't newspaper articles. If you are such a diligent researcher, feel free to provide counter arguments - you know I'm the kind of annoying person who'll read them; which will probably be a waste of my time, since you don't actually want to have a rational discussion.

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:55 pm  

bren2k wrote:

For sure - there is a plurality of views; what I have a problem with is people who form their views on false information - of which Sal is a perfect example; soundbites and ill-informed repetition of a party line, without any enquiry or independent thought.

And you didn't click them either you dunderhead - one was a link to an FT analysis of why CT revenues went up last year, and the others weren't newspaper articles. If you are such a diligent researcher, feel free to provide counter arguments - you know I'm the kind of annoying person who'll read them; which will probably be a waste of my time, since you don't actually want to have a rational discussion.

You do realise that link you provided we couldn't read unless we signed up and subscribed to the Financial Times site.

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:07 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Sorry but, that would never happen, just as the Tories wouldn't back Labour is the boot was on the other foot.
Although hindsight is a wonderful thing, if it were possible, Brexit should have been looked at on a cross party basis, separate to ALL other policies.
Mrs May and her party, through utter greed and arrogance, may just have knackered our chances of getting a deal.
The 2 year time frame was always extremely tight and now, the Tories will be so busy trying to sort themselves out, that Brexit wont get the time and consideration that is requires.

Listening to the political commentators on the "Daily Politics", they (the Tories) are so fearful of losing a second election, that they will try and limp through.

Life really is stranger than fiction.

You're probably right but as you say, life is stranger than fiction and incompetent May still has to get her Queens Speech through, which is no mean feat considering what the DUP will demand to prop her up. Guess we will find out if she has a conscience of any kind or as I suspect, hungry to hold onto power at all costs.

I pay no attention to the commentators, blowhards or just parrot whatever conventional wisdom is at the time, with a few exceptions.

We'll see - it aint over till its over!

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:42 pm  

PrinterThe wrote: You do realise that link you provided we couldn't read unless we signed up and subscribed to the Financial Times site. My bad - I'm a subscriber, and I won't copy/paste it here, because subscription is what allows for proper journalism. Try this; it's less sophisticated, but pretty balanced. In short, revenues went up in 2016 for a variety of reasons - and Labour's plans to raise revenue could work - or they couldn't. And Brexit throws the whole thing into disarray, because no one can predict what corporations will do if we lose access to the single market, and a ready supply of labour.

PrinterThe wrote: You do realise that link you provided we couldn't read unless we signed up and subscribed to the Financial Times site. My bad - I'm a subscriber, and I won't copy/paste it here, because subscription is what allows for proper journalism. Try this; it's less sophisticated, but pretty balanced. In short, revenues went up in 2016 for a variety of reasons - and Labour's plans to raise revenue could work - or they couldn't. And Brexit throws the whole thing into disarray, because no one can predict what corporations will do if we lose access to the single market, and a ready supply of labour.

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:06 am  

Interestingly, Corbyn is now ahead in the opinion polls, which is why the Tories are frightened to have a re-run.
The change in fortunes of the two parties is quite staggering.

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:55 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

How would you have a borderless Ireland ?
It sounds easy when you say it but, the reality is that it just isn't possible.
Effectively it would provide tariff free access in both directions and whilst there is little doubt that this may suit Ireland (North and South), it would no doubt become a gateway for a whole host of "under the counter trade".
There always used to be a heap of trade in the border towns and many of these were done within the "grey" market, is that really how you think it will work ?

On a side note, it seems that the Tories are too nervous about re running the GE and they seem to prefer limping along until they are finally put out of their governmental misery.

Are you still a big fan of Mrs May ?

You have a united Ireland - that is coming and that is what the DUP is fighting against but it is just a matter of time. Sheer weight of numbers tells you in <10 years this will be a united country.

I never was - her staying is doing the Tories no good what so ever. She had her chance she blew it a host of MPs lost their jobs because of her stupidity and not once has she said how sorry she is - that is the calibre of the individual. For me the best person to run this country is Andy Burnham - and I would never vote for him but I am not blinded to his qualities.

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:28 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

You have a united Ireland - that is coming and that is what the DUP is fighting against but it is just a matter of time. Sheer weight of numbers tells you in <10 years this will be a united country.

I never was - her staying is doing the Tories no good what so ever. She had her chance she blew it a host of MPs lost their jobs because of her stupidity and not once has she said how sorry she is - that is the calibre of the individual. For me the best person to run this country is Andy Burnham - and I would never vote for him but I am not blinded to his qualities.

A united Ireland, although a sensible idea if you take politics and religion out of the equation, is less likely to happen with The Tories and DUP in bed together and it would probably mean a return to bad old days of sectarian shootings and bombings that the good Friday agreement almost put an end to.

I think you are right about May though and she has completely stuffed her own chances and those of the Tory party, through her vanity and greed.

The fall out within the Tory party and how long it takes for them to make some hard choices within their party are going to be mighty interesting.

Of course, despite May running off to see the Queen and telling us that they were able to form a government (with the DUP), they have first of all to get past the Queens Speech, which, at the moment, is not a certainty.

It's almost a coalition of chaos.

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:34 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

A united Ireland, although a sensible idea if you take politics and religion out of the equation, is less likely to happen with The Tories and DUP in bed together and it would probably mean a return to bad old days of sectarian shootings and bombings that the good Friday agreement almost put an end to.

I think you are right about May though and she has completely stuffed her own chances and those of the Tory party, through her vanity and greed.

The fall out within the Tory party and how long it takes for them to make some hard choices within their party are going to be mighty interesting.

Of course, despite May running off to see the Queen and telling us that they were able to form a government (with the DUP), they have first of all to get past the Queens Speech, which, at the moment, is not a certainty.

It's almost a coalition of chaos.

At this moment in time what with brexit, politicians need to do whats best for the country and put on a united front. Instead, you have the Tories who are clinging onto power without a care for the country.

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:47 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

a host of MPs lost their jobs because of her stupidity and not once has she said how sorry she is

Neither did she say sorry to the disabled people who were persecuted under her watch, the nurses who had to use foodbanks, or the teachers who had to beg parents to make good the shortfall in school funding so they could buy books and equipment; she has form in this regard.

That said - she has now said the Tory party will help those MP's who are in financial difficulty due to losing their seats through her incompetence; it seems there is a magic money tree after all, if you're a Tory MP...

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:06 am  

bren2k wrote:

Neither did she say sorry to the disabled people who were persecuted under her watch, the nurses who had to use foodbanks, or the teachers who had to beg parents to make good the shortfall in school funding so they could buy books and equipment; she has form in this regard.

That said - she has now said the Tory party will help those MP's who are in financial difficulty due to losing their seats through her incompetence; it seems there is a magic money tree after all, if you're a Tory MP...

I haven't seen her comments about helping those Tory MP's who have lost their seats and if true, I find that to be quite vulgar, especially after the deliberate and systematic destruction of manufacturing in the North of England.
MP's of everyone, know that their position is perilous and aside from the fact that many of them have paid work outside of Parliament, it's just not on.
I'll add this to my "against" column when we have the next election.

Will they be sending any money north of the border, to help the SNP candidates who lost their seats or are they just looking after themselves, again.