Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:55 pm  

Ajw71 wrote:

Hard Brexit / Soft Brexit are just woolly phrases made up remainers because of the negative connotations associated with the former.

There is no 'hard' or 'soft' brexit. There is just brexit and everything that comes with that.

There was me thinking a "soft" Brexit would be akin to Norway, not part of the European Union but a member of the European Economic Area.

Whereas a "hard" Brexit would require negotiations similar to the Canadian model in order to trade with Europe, which only took seven years to broker.

Regarding woolly phrases, I would say on that topic Brexiters have the upper hand with quotes like

"It'll all be o.k. - in the long run".

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:08 pm  

Cronus wrote:

And your 'real world' consists of what?

A world where an unelected and untouchable body decides non-negotiable laws and policy for the UK?
A world where the utterly fookin stoopid concept of 'freedom of movement' between hugely uneven economies is a good idea?
A world where bananas are too bent?
A world where getting all 28 countries to ratify anything is only marginally more successful than Warrington winning a Grand Final?
A world where the UK sends £13 billion a year to Brussels and receives only £4.5 billion in return?
A world where the great experiment of the Euro has brought nothing but economic misery?
A world where the creeping entry of Turkey into EU is anything but a looming disaster?
A world where the snowflake loony left have grown far too accustomed to this bonkers ideology and can't see it for the idiocy it is?

If that's your world you're welcome to it.

The bottom line is we would never have joined the EU in its current form. Yes, some tough times are ahead but extricating ourselves from this mire was always going to be a rocky road.

Yet another top post , yes we will have problems to deal with , but it will be our decisions , yet no doubt we will see somebody suggesting we should have stayed in and used our influence , knowing full well we had no influence

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:11 pm  

GUBRATS wrote:

Yet another top post , yes we will have problems to deal with , but it will be our decisions , yet no doubt we will see somebody suggesting we should have stayed in and used our influence , knowing full well we had no influence

We have a fair bit more influence on the inside than on the outside

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:21 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

We have a fair bit more influence on the inside than on the outside

Do we ?

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:24 pm  

Cronus wrote:

And your 'real world' consists of what?

A world where an unelected and untouchable body decides non-negotiable laws and policy for the UK?
A world where the utterly fookin stoopid concept of 'freedom of movement' between hugely uneven economies is a good idea?
A world where bananas are too bent?
A world where getting all 28 countries to ratify anything is only marginally more successful than Warrington winning a Grand Final?
A world where the UK sends £13 billion a year to Brussels and receives only £4.5 billion in return?
A world where the great experiment of the Euro has brought nothing but economic misery?
A world where the creeping entry of Turkey into EU is anything but a looming disaster?
A world where the snowflake loony left have grown far too accustomed to this bonkers ideology and can't see it for the idiocy it is?

If that's your world you're welcome to it.

The bottom line is we would never have joined the EU in its current form. Yes, some tough times are ahead but extricating ourselves from this mire was always going to be a rocky road.

Wrencat ! , pick the bones out of this ? , don't just go for the easy single points from me

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:28 pm  

GUBRATS wrote:

Wrencat ! , pick the bones out of this ? , don't just go for the easy single points from me

Non negotiable laws is certainly mis leading.
We (the UK) still make our own laws through Westminster.
Freedom of Movement needs dealing with and there is little doubt that there will be a change to this ideal, which was ok at the outset of The EU but, is now totally impractical.
28 countries do ratify certain things but, I agree, it's too many voices to make decisions quickly.
The £8.5 billion figure, whilst being a huge figure, will be chicken feed compared to the cost of trading with the EU, when a new agreement is reached to trade with the EU - notice the black picture that is being painted of the UK economic forecasts since Brexit, not to mention the mickey poor value of sterling, which will cost the UK far more than £8.5 billion over the next couple of years.
I'll ignore the economic misery, largely brought about by the banking sector, which affected countries like the US, who are not in the EU.
(having said that, The Greeks would have a different view).
Turkey is an extremely delicate situation and whether or not the EU exists this isnt going to change anytime soon.

There are plenty of faults with the EU and only a fool would try and say it was ideal, however, the timing of the referendum could hardly be worse economically and changes on freedom of movement will have to happen, whether the UK is a member or not.
Equally, the EU has been largely trouble free for the last 40 years and it's ability to work together on issues like the Environment and Peace are critical.

As I said, far from perfect but, which nation is ?

With the UK having voted out, it would suit us for the whole EU situation to fail and then there would be the chance to have free trade agreements etc.
However, if anyone thinks that the UK will be able to import goods tariff free from other countries and use them to gain a competetive edge to sell back into our largest export market, they are clearly deluded.

Btw, I quite like my Bananas bent

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:00 pm  

Cronus wrote:

And your 'real world' consists of what?

A world where an unelected and untouchable body decides non-negotiable laws and policy for the UK?
A world where the utterly fookin stoopid concept of 'freedom of movement' between hugely uneven economies is a good idea?
A world where bananas are too bent?
A world where getting all 28 countries to ratify anything is only marginally more successful than Warrington winning a Grand Final?
A world where the UK sends £13 billion a year to Brussels and receives only £4.5 billion in return?
A world where the great experiment of the Euro has brought nothing but economic misery?
A world where the creeping entry of Turkey into EU is anything but a looming disaster?
A world where the snowflake loony left have grown far too accustomed to this bonkers ideology and can't see it for the idiocy it is?

If that's your world you're welcome to it.

The bottom line is we would never have joined the EU in its current form. Yes, some tough times are ahead but extricating ourselves from this mire was always going to be a rocky road.

Brilliant post. How can someone who claims to be so clever come across as being so stupid. I'd love to pick each point apart but I really can't be bothered as it will just cause an argument and there is nothing more annoying than losing an argument with someone who is too stupid to understand your points
Regards

King james

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:43 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Non negotiable laws is certainly mis leading.
We (the UK) still make our own laws through Westminster.
Freedom of Movement needs dealing with and there is little doubt that there will be a change to this ideal, which was ok at the outset of The EU but, is now totally impractical.
28 countries do ratify certain things but, I agree, it's too many voices to make decisions quickly.
The £8.5 billion figure, whilst being a huge figure, will be chicken feed compared to the cost of trading with the EU, when a new agreement is reached to trade with the EU - notice the black picture that is being painted of the UK economic forecasts since Brexit, not to mention the mickey poor value of sterling, which will cost the UK far more than £8.5 billion over the next couple of years.
I'll ignore the economic misery, largely brought about by the banking sector, which affected countries like the US, who are not in the EU.
(having said that, The Greeks would have a different view).
Turkey is an extremely delicate situation and whether or not the EU exists this isnt going to change anytime soon.

There are plenty of faults with the EU and only a fool would try and say it was ideal, however, the timing of the referendum could hardly be worse economically and changes on freedom of movement will have to happen, whether the UK is a member or not.
Equally, the EU has been largely trouble free for the last 40 years and it's ability to work together on issues like the Environment and Peace are critical.

As I said, far from perfect but, which nation is ?

With the UK having voted out, it would suit us for the whole EU situation to fail and then there would be the chance to have free trade agreements etc.
However, if anyone thinks that the UK will be able to import goods tariff free from other countries and use them to gain a competetive edge to sell back into our largest export market, they are clearly deluded.

Btw, I quite like my Bananas bent

Yes, we still make our own laws...and the EU Commission and Council make others we can do nothing (or very little) about. The main point being...we have an elected government, where is the sense in turning law-making powers over to an unelected body? Crazy.
Freedom of movement will NEVER be dealt with. It's a core pillar of EU policy and those in power believe in it utterly. Their refusal to compromise was another reason I chose my vote. Freedom of movement is great news for Poland and Hungary and Greece and Spain and Italy...and I'll give you one guess where they're all heading? The UK, Germany, France, some Scandinavian nations. No-one is heading the other way. No-one.
Black economic picture? All I'm seeing is good news...investment, growth, etc. Yes, inflation is up ad the pound is on a rollercoaster but for the umpteenth time (getting boring now), we all knew Brexit would deliver tough times. Long term, however, we will reap the benefits. Most of the naysayers are revising their forecasts - though of course we all accept Article 50 has yet to be triggered.
The Euro has been an unmitigated disaster. Tying in so many countries with vastly different economic and social structures simply means any single country facing economic crisis cannot deal with it effectively independently. They can't twiddle their exchange and/or interest rates, or print notes - they can only come begging to the EU. Economic policy delivered from (and largely for) Brussels and Germany has plunged other nations into oblivion.
Turkey has us by the knackers. They can open the floodgates and allow millions more refugees and immigrants across the border unless the EU bends to its will. Turkey's membership (or part-membership) is creeping closer every day. The EU is trapped between rising anti-immigrant, anti-open border sentiment across the bloc and a need to satisfy Turkey.

One of the core issues with the EU is the nature of its leaders. An elite far removed from the poor streets of Greece and Portugal, who cling to the deluded and failing dream. I work with many Europeans (mainly Germans and Germanics), and their stubbornness can be astounding. Don't expect them to back down and offer compromise or ever, ever, ever admit the great EU experiment is riddled with critical faults.

The original concept of free trade was wonderful. What a shame it was hijacked. Mr Delors has a lot to answer for, the deluded Socialist fool.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:43 pm  

Lebron James wrote:

Brilliant post. How can someone who claims to be so clever come across as being so stupid. I'd love to pick each point apart but I really can't be bothered as it will just cause an argument and there is nothing more annoying than losing an argument with someone who is too stupid to understand your points
Regards

King james

Come back when the adults have finished talking.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:20 am  

Lebron James wrote:

Brilliant post. How can someone who claims to be so clever come across as being so stupid. I'd love to pick each point apart but I really can't be bothered as it will just cause an argument and there is nothing more annoying than losing an argument with someone who is too stupid to understand your points
Regards

King james

If the RFL put me in charge of the England team we'd be beating the Aussies in the 4 nations/World cup , but I can't be bothered applying for the job
Regards

King Ste