Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:42 pm  

bren2k wrote:

But they are 'ex-pats,' which sounds all nice and fluffy; whereas when people come here, they are 'immigrants,' which has all sorts of nasty, job-taking, school-filling, GP-misusing, benefit-claiming connotations attached to it.

But, they are all well informed, well educated people Bren, definitely not racist or xenophobic, they are just fed up with immigration
Seriously, the rhetoric used by Farage and Trump in their respective campaigns would not be tolerated in "normal" life, yet it seems that in the modern world, it's absolutely fine to target certain groups of people.
The real worry at the moment is that "typical" Labour supporters, who would never dream of voting Conservative, are more than happy to support Farage and his anti immigration stance.
In typical Daily Mail style, he has marginalised thousands of decent hard working people and sewn the seed that everyone from outside the UK is a benefit scrounger or murderer, it's ugly politics, with little thought on how the country and it's inhabitants will move froward, once we actually exit the EU.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:48 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

But, they are all well informed, well educated people Bren, definitely not racist or xenophobic, they are just fed up with immigration
Seriously, the rhetoric used by Farage and Trump in their respective campaigns would not be tolerated in "normal" life, yet it seems that in the modern world, it's absolutely fine to target certain groups of people.
The real worry at the moment is that "typical" Labour supporters, who would never dream of voting Conservative, are more than happy to support Farage and his anti immigration stance.
In typical Daily Mail style, he has marginalised thousands of decent hard working people and sewn the seed that everyone from outside the UK is a benefit scrounger or murderer, it's ugly politics, with little thought on how the country and it's inhabitants will move froward, once we actually exit the EU.

The audience on QT last night from Wakefield seemed well aware of what Brexit would mean , and the majority were happy to see it through

Just maybe their lives do come in to contact with the negative side of immigration , whereas maybe others don't

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:58 pm  

Chris28 wrote:

Because its not just about a loving dinner.

On free movement, I hope you're all happy with the possibility of schlepping to London to apply for a visa to go and support your team in Perpignan, or hit the clubs of Ibiza, or the beautiful beaches of Greece, or the Canary Islands.

1.4m British people (approx.) live and work in the EU at the moment and if we kick out the EU citizens here, imagining there won't be some reciprocal kicking out is daft. Still, all those expats from Spain can pick veg and work in hotels eh?

When they talk about free movement, they mean about moving to live and work! We did not have visa requirements pre-EU (save for going behind the Iron Curtain) and it is very unlikely we will in future.

[DaveO]

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:26 pm  

Ajw71 wrote:

Wow this European Union sounds really great. So great that more people voted to leave it than have ever voted for anything....ever.......

It is great. The result just goes to show we must have had 17m ill-informed people voting (I am being polite...) many of whom fell for a pack of lies.

You only have to read comments around the web to find out just how plain ignorant many people are about what the EU does, what it has done to the good in the UK, how it does it and what its relationship with the UK actually is.

People are lazy. They want their opinions handed to them on a plate. When someone says the EU isn't democratic do they bother to inform themselves of how it makes laws? Do they ****.

What many people don't realise is they are being manipulated. The people doing the manipulating are really not interested in the UK or the people in Wakefield, Wigan or any other depressed area.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:57 pm  

GUBRATS wrote:

The audience on QT last night from Wakefield seemed well aware of what Brexit would mean , and the majority were happy to see it through

Just maybe their lives do come in to contact with the negative side of immigration , whereas maybe others don't

Really ?

And the number of people in that audience who seemed to think we could suddenly change tomorrow and that there would be no problem.
How companies would buy or sell anything from within the EU never got a mention or the "hit" that we will take when article 50 is finally invoked.
Also you may have noticed that following David Davis' comments (a Brexit guy) about paying to pay to stay within the single market, the Pound suddenly jumped in value against the Euro.
Most people say that they want to be out of the single market completely and put an end to free movement and whilst there is little doubt that mot want net immigration to fall substantially, there seems little understanding on how the free market works and what the choices are outside it, something that the leave campaign dint't bother telling people about.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:19 pm  

GUBRATS wrote:

The audience on QT last night from Wakefield seemed well aware of what Brexit would mean , and the majority were happy to see it through

Just maybe their lives do come in to contact with the negative side of immigration , whereas maybe others don't

Which is ironic, given that just 5% of the total population of Wakefield were not born in the UK; and that includes non EU individuals as well as those from within the EU. So the strong likelihood is that the negative side of immigration some of those embarrassing representatives of Wakefield are most familiar with, is that which The Sun, The Daily Mail and Nigel Farage told them about, rather than experiences from actual real life.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:23 pm  

With the Libdems taking Richmond from the Tories, a previously very safe seat and Labour losing its deposit
is there likely to be a change of tactics for Mrs May ?

Incredibly, UKIP's share of the vote shrank dramatically and the result, albeit in a one off by-election has caused shockwaves to ripple through the political parties.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:26 pm  

DaveO wrote:

It is great. The result just goes to show we must have had 17m ill-informed people voting (I am being polite...) many of whom fell for a pack of lies.

You only have to read comments around the web to find out just how plain ignorant many people are about what the EU does, what it has done to the good in the UK, how it does it and what its relationship with the UK actually is.

People are lazy. They want their opinions handed to them on a plate. When someone says the EU isn't democratic do they bother to inform themselves of how it makes laws? Do they ****.

What many people don't realise is they are being manipulated. The people doing the manipulating are really not interested in the UK or the people in Wakefield, Wigan or any other depressed area.

They may have fallen for lies but were not as gullible as those who fell for the doom-mongering lies of Osborne and his cronies on the Remain side.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:06 pm  

Dally wrote:

They may have fallen for lies but were not as gullible as those who fell for the doom-mongering lies of Osborne and his cronies on the Remain side.

It does look increasingly likely that The UK wants to retain access to the EU single market and whilst this would have to be accepted by all parties (the UK and the EU27), this would indeed give us an excellent opportunity going forward.
I've no idea what theis does to the "Brexit means Brexit" rhetoric that we've heard for the last few months.
However, it would hopefully prevent the economy dropping off the proverbial cliff edge, when May finally triggers article 50.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:17 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

It does look increasingly likely that The UK wants to retain access to the EU single market and whilst this would have to be accepted by all parties (the UK and the EU27), this would indeed give us an excellent opportunity going forward.
I've no idea what theis does to the "Brexit means Brexit" rhetoric that we've heard for the last few months.
However, it would hopefully prevent the economy dropping off the proverbial cliff edge, when May finally triggers article 50.

You still think the EU will exist in it's current form by 2018/19?...lots of water to go under the bridge over the next 12/18 months with elections coming up in lots of the bigger nations that will have a huge effect on the EU.That's without throwing the Trump factor in the mixer.

Brexit will be remembered more for what it did to rock the status quo and showing what can be done, rather than what actually happens when all is said and done regards the end deal..if there if there ever is one now.