Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:47 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

They bloody well are now, that's a fact. Strangely there still seem to be £squillions to lash around at the likes of A4E, who can claim more from government than the amount of JobSeeker's Allowance the country saves. Something is seriously cockeyed there

Yep, that's the approach they're taking. Just privatise it and all is well. I've had dealings with another company, I think it was Prospect Training, who regularly put people through pointless courses like how to fill in an application form, which I'm sure was of use to some but not to all, because the more people on the course meant they could claim more money from the government for "up-skilling" people.
Don't get me wrong, some of the work they do is great, but that work could easily be undertaken by the jobcentres if they were adequately funded.

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:21 pm  

On your earlier point, about your mate who simply couldn't be arsed. We all know someone like that but what we then have to do is compare them to the numbers of people we know (or are aware of), who are hard-working grafters. Once we do that, we see that the "problem" really is not that big at all

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:25 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

On your earlier point, about your mate who simply couldn't be arsed. We all know someone like that but what then have to do is compare them to the numbers of people we know (or are aware of), who are hard-working grafters. Once we do that, we see that the "problem" really is not that big at all

Spot on!
I wouldn't class him as a mate though, if he was I'd have given him a kick up the backside to get him properly trying to get a job

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:40 pm  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

I don't know whether he is 'dysfunctional', but there is a lazy spiffing chap across the road from me who, in the 18 years I've known him, as never done a day's work.

He is classed as disabled, though it doesn't stop him from having the best garden in the neighboorhood, all through his own excellent work - He can even scale trees in order to remove any unruly branches. He is also extremely mobile, often being seen walking back and forth to the pub, though he does have a motor vehicle (funded by motability) to help him when he has his tired moments.

Now I know some on here, who have contributed to this thread, will try and defend him and say that in his private moments he may very well be in some sort of pain, but, personally, he is the type of person who needs eliminating from the benefits system.

The problem at the moment is that too many bad apples are ruining things for the genuine disabled, of which I fully accept there are a good amount, and simply labelling these kind of folk as 'dysfunctional' does not give them excuse to simply give up and expect to be looked after by the taxpayer.

I remember replying to a very, very similar post on the Daily Mails website not so long ago and I'll tell you the same thing as I did on there; its curtain twitchers like you that I love to hate. You are not a Doctor, you don't know your neighbours medical history. You don't know that after doing his garden he has to lay up for the rest of the day (like I do after I've walked the dogs or cut the grass or had a busy day) but you wouldn't see that. You couldn't possibly know how many pain killers he takes or (like me) how often he has to change his Fentanyl pain killer patches that he wears. You are not present at any of his medical appointments so how could you possibly know that he hasn't been given the ok to do his garden. And since when has been able to do a bit of gardening the disability crime of the centuary???

Jealously is an evil thing.

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:53 pm  

I've no doubt that we all know of people who have been or who feel badly done to by this Government purge on anyone who claims for anything from the public purse, the next target are those on above average incomes claiming child allowance.

But here's a story of a friend of mine, see if you think this is fair because I honestly think this is symptomatic of the whole pogrom now - the wife of a close friend had been an employee of our local council for several decades as a "home help", she had a round of local pensioners homes that she visited once a week or occasionally more often to clean, cook a meal and generally keep an eye on her "clients" for whom she felt personally responsible.

A couple of years ago with her knees knackered after thirty years of hard graft she went in for an artificial knee to be fitted, the operation was not successful and she's ended up unable to walk more than a few hundred yards and unable to kneel down, her employer decided (rightly) that she was unable to continue in her work and offered her redundancy and an appointment at an assessment centre to claim disability allowance, which after several medical tests and a statement from the hospital that did the operation, she was granted.

All was fine until this year when she was asked to attend another interview, and eventually advised that she did not qualify for disability allowance any longer because she was able to do "some work".

The goal posts weren't just moved, they were playing a completely different game.

Two year previous the assessment was based on "can you continue to work in your chosen career" to which the answer was very clearly "No", now the question is "Can you do any sort of work at all ?" to which their answer (you aren't allowed an opinion) is "Yes, you can do office work".

Truth is, she possibly could, other than the fact that she is in her 50s, has no keyboard skills, doesn;t know where to switch a computer on and has never worked in an office at all or had an inkling to do so, in theory yes she could work in an office, in practice you'd probably employ a chimp to do the work before her and she'd certainly be at the back of a very, very long queue if ever an office job arose that was on a bus route with a stop no further than 100 yards away from the workplace.

The sham is that they went through an "assessment", everyone would feel so much better if they just told her to fekk off because they had no money left.

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:08 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

The sham is that they went through an "assessment", everyone would feel so much better if they just told her to fekk off because they had no money left.

Talking from experience JC the whole thing is one big (mega expensive) charade. I know it, you know it, Atos knows it, IDS knows it, Grayling (ex employment minister) knows it, but we all have to pretend its for the greater good of us ill and disabled people. The system is flawed in a big way. Yes, Labour did bring in Atos and started the whole sorry mess but the assesment was a lot fairer under Labour, off the top of my head instead of what is asked now "can you climb two steps with help" Yes/no.............it used to be "can you climb a flight of stairs without help and if not what sort of help do you need?" And it used to be can you kneel down/crouch down and pick up a cardboard box from the floor, if not describe why"......now its " can you pick up an empty cardboard box from the floor without help, yes/no?" No room for descriptions, just a simple yes/no answer that, by the time you've finished, makes it look like you are as fit as a butchers dog.

The problem is its the tax payers who are baying for our blood, yet its the taxpayers who are paying millions upon millions to put us through this charade.

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:42 pm  

What we need to move to is a system whereby politicians who make bad, ill thought out and costly decisions are made personally responsible for wasting public funds and jailed if necessary. That's where the waste is not helping the needy and vulnerable. Let's think of a few billions - bad decisions by Brown at the start of the banking crisis, expensive and failed IT systems in the NHS (and others in the preceding decades), enormous wate on consultants' fees, enormous waste on a "review" of everything, wasteful procurement by MOD, including scrapped projects, awarding big infrastructure projects to foreign suppliers, buying second homes out of public funds, being above commuting homes like their constituents, being in the EU, etc, etc. In short politicians are destroying this country whilst not doing the things we want them too - like punish criminals, destroy the drugs trade, get weapons off the streets, arrange free, high quality healthcare, education and help for the sick and disabled, protect freedoms, etc, etc.

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:22 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

<snip>

Ealier this week I saw a message from an ex-squaddie that went something like this:

Dear Atos,

Thanks for your letters informing me that I am capable of work and my DLA is to be removed. I have read your letters out on numerous occasions but so far my legs have refused to grow back, wjat's left of them are lying in a field somewhere in Helmand

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:13 am  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

I don't know whether he is 'dysfunctional', but there is a lazy spiffing chap across the road from me who, in the 18 years I've known him, as never done a day's work.

He is classed as disabled ...

I have no idea about such a case, obviously, but what you're describing doesn't sound like the cases I was specifically thinking of.

Both of those individuals have chaotic lives that certainly don't involve 'nice gardens' or a flash lifestyle.

I have no firm knowledge of what any doctor has ever diagnosed in either case – I could only ever guess. It doesn't change what I posted, though.

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:46 am  

cod'ead wrote:

Ealier this week I saw a message from an ex-squaddie that went something like this:

Dear Atos,

Thanks for your letters informing me that I am capable of work and my DLA is to be removed. I have read your letters out on numerous occasions but so far my legs have refused to grow back, wjat's left of them are lying in a field somewhere in Helmand

Pfffffft, Atos have him on camera.