Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 2:39 pm  

Anakin Skywalker wrote:

Wow.
I guess you talking about 'a clue' was irony.

Nope, it was a statement of fact, too many people want to blame someone else.

Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 2:43 pm  

Standee wrote:

so, explain this, why is it people with f'k all that want people with more to pay?


it may not be explainable to you Mintball, it doesn't make it any a less valid opinion.

Because, daily newspaper scaremongering and propaganda spreading to one side, the vast majority of "ordinary" working people have seen and are continuing to see a very definite fall in their living standards since 2010 - now you can blame that on the Tories if you like, I don't personally pin all the blame on them because it obvious that budgets had to be cut by whoever was in government, but for the vast majority of those who's monthly budget pays the mortgage, the bills, puts food on the table and pays for one holiday a year, those people are hurting and many of those are only hanging on to liquidity because of tax credits, they are also usually the same people for whom zero hour or short term contracts are the norm and its very difficult to look beyond the next month for any sort of stability.

Thats the reality of life for millions who would fall into the description of "having f'k all", they aren't (as the printed Murdoch media would like you to believe) the scrounging class, they aren't drawing £30k a year on benefits and not getting out of bed until 2pm every day, they aren't the third generation to never have had a job, those stereotypes either do not exist or exist in very insignificant numbers - the vast majority of benefits claimants are IN work, but do not have savings, do not have secure employment and do not earn much above (if anything above) the minimum wage - they are the millions who have f'k all.

And its only human that they might look at those earning even £40k and above and believe that that group should contribute a little more.

Its not in question that those on higher salaries have often worked hard to get to where they are, its also not in question that those on higher salaries have also had a bit of good fortune to get to where they are, I've been there and I'm honest enough to acknowledge this.

So what sort of "society" would you like to see, one where each pays a fair share according to their means or one where the lucky get to keep more of their gains than the not-so-lucky, whilst still sharing all of the same benefits - a fair or unfair society, in so far as anything can be fair ?

Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 2:44 pm  

Standee wrote:

so, explain this, why is it people with f'k all that want people with more to pay?

That's me discounted from your 'politics of envy' claim, then. And several more on here, I suggest.

Standee wrote:

it may not be explainable to you Mintball, it doesn't make it any a less valid opinion.

You still haven't 'explained' it. As I have very, very simply and briefly illustrated.

I have not said that it is not a "valid opinion". Although opinions, to be taken seriously, usually require at least something to back them up.

Standee wrote:

people going to food banks, maybe they should work a bit harder?

people having their benefit cut, maybe they too should work a bit harder

there's a clue here, WORK FOR IT.

In all those lovely jobs out there, eh?

And that's not mentioning those who do work – but who are on very low incomes.

'Politics of envy', you claim?

It seems that you have a long-term, quite openly stated, dislike of the many people who work, but who are paid low wages, and it seems that you imagine:

1) that anyone doing those jobs – however necessary to society as a whole or to an individual business – should be poorly paid;

2) and that anyone who wants more money should somehow magic themselves into one of the countless superbly-paid jobs that are going.

And you claim that I have an understanding deficit ...

Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 3:09 pm  

Mintball wrote:

That's me discounted from your 'politics of envy' claim, then. And several more on here, I suggest.

You still haven't 'explained' it. As I have very, very simply and briefly illustrated.

I have not said that it is not a "valid opinion". Although opinions, to be taken seriously, usually require at least something to back them up.

In all those lovely jobs out there, eh?

And that's not mentioning those who do work – but who are on very low incomes.

'Politics of envy', you claim?

It seems that you have a long-term, quite openly stated, dislike of the many people who work, but who are paid low wages, and it seems that you imagine:

1) that anyone doing those jobs – however necessary to society as a whole or to an individual business – should be poorly paid;

2) and that anyone who wants more money should somehow magic themselves into one of the countless superbly-paid jobs that are going.

And you claim that I have an understanding deficit ...

I don't have an innate dislike of anyone, I think we both know that, I do have a dislike of people who bitch and moan about life when they could be doing more to further themselves, there are opportunities out there, but you have to work for them.

I'd love to live in a fair and equal society, where everyone was providied for, but there's scum in the plug hole and scum floating on the top, it's a sad, but true, fact.

I do not see why I should pay for people to have 17 different kids by 14 different women, but nor do I think a mother who has worked hard but been made redundant should lose everything.

Unofrtunately, life's a bitch, and she bleeds and has no reason 6 days in 31.

Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 3:24 pm  

Yeah. I mean, once all the dustmen have 'worked hard' and 'taken the opportunities that are out there', we can just wish our household waste away.

Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 3:35 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

Yeah. I mean, once all the dustmen have 'worked hard' and 'taken the opportunities that are out there', we can just wish our household waste away.

Do you have any idea what a "reffuse professional" gets paid?

put it this way, I bet you're at least 10k behind them.

Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 3:54 pm  

Standee wrote:

Do you have any idea what a "reffuse professional" gets paid?

put it this way, I bet you're at least 10k behind them.

Just done a quick search and they seem to be on around £7.50 per hour. And WTF do you know about my circumstances to be able to make such a wager anyway?

Regardless, the point stands. There are jobs that are essential to the smooth running of our society. These are often some of the lowest paid jobs available. It's hardly the 'politics of envy' to expect that those performing these vital roles should be able to afford a decent standard of living.

Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 5:28 pm  

Standee wrote:

...
Unofrtunately, life's a bitch, and she bleeds and has no reason 6 days in 31.

Nice.

[Kosh]

Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 5:48 pm  

I've noticed that people who bang on about the 'politics of envy' actually display a deep envy of anyone who receives any state support whatsoever.

The irony amuses me.

[Kosh]

Re: Austerity gone too far? : Fri May 03, 2013 5:51 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

Regardless, the point stands. There are jobs that are essential to the smooth running of our society. These are often some of the lowest paid jobs available. It's hardly the 'politics of envy' to expect that those performing these vital roles should be able to afford a decent standard of living.

People like Standee are incapable of comprehending this point.

If we all woke up one morning to find that 100% of the population was educated to PhD level we'd still need some of them to handle the menial tasks that he so despises. Then he'd have to find some other excuse for sneering at them.