Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:53 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I think it's more to do with numbers.
Back in the day (when the EU was a mere 7 nations), free movement was a non issue and merely allowed small numbers of people to visit and work in other parts of Europe (apart from the Brits "invading" Spain ).
However, with the far more severe disparity in wealth between some of the member nations, there are greater numbers wanting to move, to help improve their life chances.
The principle is great, if it means the opportunity to work and live in a different country, which should have mutual benefits for all parties but, an exodus from any country is clearly not helpful and therefore some different controls need to be put in place.

You appear to misunderstand. Free movement is fundamental to the principles of the EU, both economic and political. The logic of it is however that one day everybody will be crammed into Germany and perhaps a couple of major non-Germanic cities, leaving the rest of Europe as backwaters. That process has been underway and it is why the UK long-term must be better off out, as would be just about everywhere everywhere else.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:36 am  

Dally wrote:

You appear to misunderstand. Free movement is fundamental to the principles of the EU, both economic and political. The logic of it is however that one day everybody will be crammed into Germany and perhaps a couple of major non-Germanic cities, leaving the rest of Europe as backwaters. That process has been underway and it is why the UK long-term must be better off out, as would be just about everywhere everywhere else.

You're funny

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:43 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

You're funny

It's true though, which ain't funny. Let's look at how peripheral areas are doing - Italy - broke, Greece - broke, Spain - broke; Portugal - broke; UK - wealth increasingly concentrated in London and other regions increasingly impoverished; France - Paris hanging on but everywhere else broke. We could go on but you see the point?

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:57 am  

Dally wrote:

It's true though, which ain't funny. Let's look at how peripheral areas are doing - Italy - broke, Greece - broke, Spain - broke; Portugal - broke; UK - wealth increasingly concentrated in London and other regions increasingly impoverished; France - Paris hanging on but everywhere else broke. We could go on but you see the point?

I partly agree with your sentiment about Germany wanting to be the driving force (and most powerful nation) within the EU.
But, to say thay they wish to take on the population of the EU was just funny.
Their aim, with France trying to hang on to Germany's coat tails, was to achieve more power and influence by having monetary dominance and to have the strongest economy, which they have had for some time.
The interesting part comes when, this actually happens.
If you look at Italy, Greece, Porugal and Spain, Italy and Greece have been basket cases for as long as I can remember and they probably thought that inclusion in the Eurozone and taking on the Euro, would protect them and allow them to prosper.
However, their reluctance to sort out their tax regulations and run their countries "properley" has left them "hanging on", just as they always were.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:37 pm  

Dally wrote:

It's true though, which ain't funny. Let's look at how peripheral areas are doing - Italy - broke, Greece - broke, Spain - broke; Portugal - broke; UK - wealth increasingly concentrated in London and other regions increasingly impoverished; France - Paris hanging on but everywhere else broke. We could go on but you see the point?

But how is leaving the E.U. going to change this?

The only time a bit of cash is spent "Up North" it's via E.U. grants.

Love the notion of migrants running amok in Germany b.t.w.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:47 pm  

The Devil's Advocate wrote:

But how is leaving the E.U. going to change this?

The only time a bit of cash is spent "Up North" it's via E.U. grants.

Love the notion of migrants running amok in Germany b.t.w.

The EU destroys small business in favour of big, via regulatory costs. Even in the SE so many local economies have faded in favour of London's big businesses.
The current EU emphasis of the UK makes the SE corner and Eastern seaports more wealthy at the expenses of the N and W (a process which has been clear since EUmembership).
EU subsidies are simply a partial recycling of the UKs own money. Politicians will no longer be able to hide behind the EU being the causes of our ills (a stance which caused them to lose the referendum!) but actually take responsibility for their own country and trying to assist in stimulating regional economies. A start would be to equalise infrastructure spending.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:23 am  

Dally wrote:

The EU destroys small business in favour of big, via regulatory costs. Even in the SE so many local economies have faded in favour of London's big businesses.
The current EU emphasis of the UK makes the SE corner and Eastern seaports more wealthy at the expenses of the N and W (a process which has been clear since EUmembership).
EU subsidies are simply a partial recycling of the UKs own money. Politicians will no longer be able to hide behind the EU being the causes of our ills (a stance which caused them to lose the referendum!) but actually take responsibility for their own country and trying to assist in stimulating regional economies. A start would be to equalise infrastructure spending.

Bloody hell Nigel, you are clutching at straws on this one.
Small businesses have been the major boost to the UK economy since the Banking crisis and they are the primary reason for the current jobs growth in the UK.
There is a major risk, that would have a massive effect on London's influence and that is, IF the EU wishes to move a hefty slice of its financial services away from the UK.
After all, it will have a responsibility to it's member nations and wont give a tinkers toss about the UK.
In fact, there are some parties in the EU that will take great pleasure in damaging the country that has put the skids under the Euro zone.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:20 pm  

Dally wrote:

The EU destroys small business in favour of big, via regulatory costs. Even in the SE so many local economies have faded in favour of London's big businesses.
The current EU emphasis of the UK makes the SE corner and Eastern seaports more wealthy at the expenses of the N and W (a process which has been clear since EUmembership).
EU subsidies are simply a partial recycling of the UKs own money. Politicians will no longer be able to hide behind the EU being the causes of our ills (a stance which caused them to lose the referendum!) but actually take responsibility for their own country and trying to assist in stimulating regional economies. A start would be to equalise infrastructure spending.

Are you really of the opinion that the monies currently doled out by the E.U. will be distributed fairly throughout the Kingdom once the "Westminster Gang" get their grubby hands on it?

Personally I don't think they'll give a tinker's cuss.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:52 pm  

The Devil's Advocate wrote: Are you really of the opinion that the monies currently doled out by the E.U. will be distributed fairly throughout the Kingdom once the "Westminster Gang" get their grubby hands on it? Personally I don't think they'll give a tinker's cuss. He's living in la la land isn't he. The cronies in Westminster could already be distributing funds fairly and evenly now & in the past - why on Earth would their attitudes change once the EU funding stops? Utter nonsense. Looking at the funds Westminster controls already and it's likely to get far worse for many areas. Council funding? Infrastructure? Flood defences? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38343063 Austerity Cuts? Yeh but if we leave the EU the pricks running the country will suddenly make everything fair and nice

The Devil's Advocate wrote: Are you really of the opinion that the monies currently doled out by the E.U. will be distributed fairly throughout the Kingdom once the "Westminster Gang" get their grubby hands on it? Personally I don't think they'll give a tinker's cuss. He's living in la la land isn't he. The cronies in Westminster could already be distributing funds fairly and evenly now & in the past - why on Earth would their attitudes change once the EU funding stops? Utter nonsense. Looking at the funds Westminster controls already and it's likely to get far worse for many areas. Council funding? Infrastructure? Flood defences? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38343063 Austerity Cuts? Yeh but if we leave the EU the pricks running the country will suddenly make everything fair and nice

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:01 pm  

Have you got anything a little older we could look at?