[tb]

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:46 am  

Horatio Yed wrote:

Imagine in say year 4012 what people will be saying about L. Ron Hubbard

That he was a really bad science fiction writer who hit upon a good money making scam

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:51 am  

tb wrote:

That he was a really bad science fiction writer who hit upon a good money making scam

You've got to give that lot credit. If you are going to try and sell a load of hogwash, then try and sell it to Hollywood stars, who are a) massively insecure, and b) massively rich!

Much better than peddling it to poor people in the hope that they won't overthrow the status quo.

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:04 am  

gulfcoast_highwayman wrote:

You've got to give that lot credit. If you are going to try and sell a load of hogwash, then try and sell it to Hollywood stars, who are a) massively insecure, and b) massively rich!

Much better than peddling it to poor people in the hope that they won't overthrow the status quo.

They also make it incredibly diffucult to leave by cutting off anyone who does leave from the community, which includes being cut off from close familiy mambers who remain in thee church. They also cannot handle any criticism of their cul... er I mean religion and will use litigation to attempt to silence those who criticise their cul... er I mean religion.

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:39 am  

Is L. Ron Hubbard just the Jebus of the 21st century?

I imagine Jebus being some manipulative scam artist of way back when and the naive fools just followed him and gave him all their fish and bread.

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:59 am  

Horatio Yed wrote:

Is L. Ron Hubbard just the Jebus of the 21st century?

I imagine Jebus being some manipulative scam artist of way back when and the naive fools just followed him and gave him all their fish and bread.

Or the Charles Taze Russell of the 19th century or the Muhammad of the 6th century.

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:03 pm  

kirkstaller wrote:

I'm afraid I'm not going to trawl through ~90 pages of debate to find your questions. I apologise for not addressing them the first time around, although the fact I didn't respond causes me to believe they were the same as questions asked by other posters.

You don't have to trawl through anything. Get a search of my posts up and clicking the ones on this thread would take you straight there. But you won't, because like I said, what you do is ignore every question, and you hope it will be submerged and your swerve not noticed, or forgotten.

kirkstaller wrote:

If you really want specific questions answering then I suggest you repeat them here in plain English and I will respond by COP tomorrow.

If you do check you will see that oddly enough, English is indeed the language I chose to ask them.

kirkstaller wrote:

God doesn't intercede now because he has addressed the problem of sin by sending his son Jesus Christ.

That does not mean anything. Unless sin had been obliterated by this act, then the problem of sin clearly remains, unabated. What you seem to add to this equation is that (unless I read you wrong) we are all to be punished, for sins of our forbears in the past, and burn in hell, even if personally we do nothing wrong. Have I got that one right?
If that's how it works, I wouldn't ask god to address the problem of a leak in our plumbing.

kirkstaller wrote:

This [Jesus Christ popping down for a one-on-one with kirksstaller!] is not intervention. He has not materially changed the world like he did in the OT. I'm surprised that such an 'enlightened' person can't see the difference between world-changing acts such as sending a plague of locusts and flooding the world, and his contribution to a fruitful spiritual relationship with one of his followers.

"Plague of locusts"? Stop it now, you're cracking me up.
But I do note your delusional suggestion that you were the one chosen follower. Even allowing for your conceit at being the "chosen one", intervention is not a question of degree. He either intervenes, or leaves you (personally) to it, based on your faith. As you no longer need faith, having met JC personally, that is a clear and unarguable intervention.You said JC contributed to your fruitful spiritual relationship. That is intervention.

kirkstaller wrote:

Can you develop that point please? Why is call someone crazy un-Christian?

Ask JC next time he pops in.

kirkstaller wrote:

It is not intervening because the world has not been materially changed.

Ah, right. So from a totally non-intervening god, who will not interfere regardless, because he just leaves us all to it, you are saying that god in fact is a full-on,hands-on interfere with everything micro-manager, then? Is that it? And unless he goes on to an intervention which is on a global scale, it "doesn't count" as intervention?
Let me then just ask you ONE question, as I know you dare not and will not answer any of my earlier questions:
You now propose that, on the micro scale, god DOES intervene in people's lives, at a trivial, petty level, such as poping down to chat with you. So, on a similar micro-management scale, ou might have an innocent child bor with AIDS and syphilis. Why would JC not find it a better use of his time to pop round there than to yours?

kirkstaller wrote:

Do you realise how much you sound like a child screaming "it's not fair, it's not fair, why didn't God visit me???"

Er, no. I don't sound like that at all, as there is no god. Furthermore, if there was a god such as yours I certainly wouldn't want anything whatsoever to do with him.

kirkstaller wrote:

If you are open to such a relationship then it will happen.

Sadly at the moment I am not delusional, and so it will not.

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:28 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

You don't have to trawl through anything. Get a search of my posts up and clicking the ones on this thread would take you straight there. But you won't, because like I said, what you do is ignore every question, and you hope it will be submerged and your swerve not noticed, or forgotten.

OK, give me until tomorrow to find them

That does not mean anything. Unless sin had been obliterated by this act, then the problem of sin clearly remains, unabated. What you seem to add to this equation is that (unless I read you wrong) we are all to be punished, for sins of our forbears in the past, and burn in hell, even if personally we do nothing wrong. Have I got that one right?

No, you haven't got that right. You are judged on your sin only, not someone else's. What people mean when they talk about original or Adam's sin is the emergence of sin into the world. You are not condemned to Hell for Adam's wrongdoing but your own.

You ask what happens if we do nothing wrong. This is impossible. The Bible tells us that we ALL fall short of God's mark. I'd like to see an example of someone who has lived a sin-free life (except Jesus of course )

But I do note your delusional suggestion that you were the one chosen follower. Even allowing for your conceit at being the "chosen one", intervention is not a question of degree. He either intervenes, or leaves you (personally) to it, based on your faith. As you no longer need faith, having met JC personally, that is a clear and unarguable intervention.You said JC contributed to your fruitful spiritual relationship. That is intervention.

He has not intervened. My heart was already open to a relationship with Jesus.

Let me then just ask you ONE question, as I know you dare not and will not answer any of my earlier questions:
You now propose that, on the micro scale, god DOES intervene in people's lives, at a trivial, petty level, such as poping down to chat with you. So, on a similar micro-management scale, ou might have an innocent child bor with AIDS and syphilis. Why would JC not find it a better use of his time to pop round there than to yours?
Er, no. I don't sound like that at all, as there is no god.

My relationship with God is not trivial, it's actually the most important thing in the world.

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:29 pm  

kirkstaller wrote:

He has not intervened. My heart was already open to a relationship with Jesus.

Why did he talk to you and not Mother Theresa?

Why doesn't he approach the thousands of clergy men who have lost their faith, but still remain with the church because they can't earn a living doing anything else?

Would you not agree that when a person want's something enough, whether that is to communicate with the dead after losing a loved one, see fairies at the bottom of the garden or be that hungry and thirsty, their mind plays tricks (hallucinations) on them?

Is their any amount of science you would listen to and acknowledge if it went against your book, or would you always go scripture over science?

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:56 pm  

Sheldon wrote:

Why did he talk to you and not Mother Theresa?

Why doesn't he approach the thousands of clergy men who have lost their faith, but still remain with the church because they can't earn a living doing anything else?

Would you not agree that when a person want's something enough, whether that is to communicate with the dead after losing a loved one, see fairies at the bottom of the garden or be that hungry and thirsty, their mind plays tricks (hallucinations) on them?

Is their any amount of science you would listen to and acknowledge if it went against your book, or would you always go scripture over science?

Why would God be interested in a no mark like Mother Theresa, anywhere in heaven or earth, when he could have the full attention of such a chosen one somewhere to the south of Horsforth?

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:09 am  

kirkstaller wrote:

My relationship with God is not trivial, it's actually the most important thing in the world.

No, it's THE most trivial thing in the world, because it's between a fantacist and a sky pixie, the most important relationship you have is between you and your wife and family, maybe you should put as much effort into your personal relationships as you to do your hatred of other people.

You are about as Christian as Hitler was Jewish.