rememberance : Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:45 pm  

If I should die, think only this of me:
That there's some corner of a foreign field
That is for ever England. There shall be
In that rich earth a richer dust concealed;
A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware,
Gave, once, her flowers to love, her ways to roam,
A body of England's, breathing English air,
Washed by the rivers, blest by suns of home.
And think, this heart, all evil shed away,
A pulse in the eternal mind, no less
Gives somewhere back the thoughts by England given;
Her sights and sounds; dreams happy as her day;
And laughter, learnt of friends; and gentleness,
In hearts at peace, under an English heaven.

Re: rememberance : Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:15 pm  

Which is a very nice poem, but to be very brutally honest is also an emotional drum-rapping patriotic litany of nonsense written at a time when people were looking for explanations to the most horrific four years in human history and yet trying to avoid the obvious explanations that so-called "leaders" and "betters" had completely failed them - there is no glory in being dead and there is certainly no glory at having bits of you scattered far and wide across a muddy landscape just because one of your "betters" said it should be so.

Re: rememberance : Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:25 pm  

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.

I'm sure some still believe it to be the case.

Re: rememberance : Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:03 pm  

McLaren_Field wrote:

Which is a very nice poem, but to be very brutally honest is also an emotional drum-rapping patriotic litany of nonsense written at a time when people were looking for explanations to the most horrific four years in human history and yet trying to avoid the obvious explanations that so-called "leaders" and "betters" had completely failed them - there is no glory in being dead and there is certainly no glory at having bits of you scattered far and wide across a muddy landscape just because one of your "betters" said it should be so.

Very, very good post.

There's a fantastic speech in Henry IV, (part two, I think), where Falstaff – in fantastically humorous style, muses on exactly this. It's quite brilliant.

Re: rememberance : Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:09 pm  

There is one slight error in my post - the poem was written in 1914 and not after the war which is what I initially thought.

However that, to my mind, just makes the whole patriot thing even worse - far from being an attempt at explaining the horror of France and Belgium it was an encouragement to young men to lay down their lives in the belief that it was the only purpose they could have, pretty disgusting when you read it in that context.

It is however a beautiful poem without the context and I too will be pausing for two minutes on Friday and Sunday, you don't have to disrespect the dead while questioning the rest of the ethos of war.

Re: rememberance : Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:21 pm  

McLaren_Field wrote:

I too will be pausing for two minutes on Friday and Sunday, you don't have to disrespect the dead while questioning the rest of the ethos of war.

This........

Although one does question how much we've learnt since the Great War.

Re: rememberance : Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:35 pm  

WIZEB wrote:

This........

Although one does question how much we've learnt since the Great War.

Sweet FA.

Re: rememberance : Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:52 pm  

Dead Man Walking wrote:

Sweet FA.

Perhaps that there were only two e in remembrance?

Re: rememberance : Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:52 pm  

WIZEB wrote:

This........

Although one does question how much we've learnt since the Great War.

Indeed.

I think the act of remembrance is very important - regardless of what on feels about any specific conflicts. And I doubt that there are many who, regardless of their analysis of recent wars, would not regret and mourn the loss of life among men and women from these islands in wars down the years.

Re: rememberance : Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:23 pm  

One thing I feel guilty of is rarely (if ever) buying a poppy. Whilst I do like to remember the fallen and have visited war cemetries and cenotaphs, I have always felt that the overt wearing of a poppy as well as paying respects to the fallen (which I like to do) also serves to glorify war publicly. It is for the latter reason that I have always been uncomfortable with it. Far better to remember quietly on your own, IMO (rather like being humble and quiet about giving to charity). I now await the inevitable criticism for being unpatriotic, etc.