Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:56 pm  

Story here and campaign here. The BHA's chief executive, Andrew Copson, said: "If the church and the government have their way and their ambitions are realised, the church will become the single largest provider of schools, totally funded by the state. That risks a majority of schools being allowed to discriminate religiously in employment, discriminate religiously in admissions, and teach curricula skewed towards Christianity across the board. Please follow the campaign links and email your MP and Michael Gove. The link has a pre-drafted email that you can just add your details to and amend as appropriate. Oh, yes, and we should probably discuss the matter as well, in order to avoid the mods' jangly keys.

Story here and campaign here. The BHA's chief executive, Andrew Copson, said: "If the church and the government have their way and their ambitions are realised, the church will become the single largest provider of schools, totally funded by the state. That risks a majority of schools being allowed to discriminate religiously in employment, discriminate religiously in admissions, and teach curricula skewed towards Christianity across the board. Please follow the campaign links and email your MP and Michael Gove. The link has a pre-drafted email that you can just add your details to and amend as appropriate. Oh, yes, and we should probably discuss the matter as well, in order to avoid the mods' jangly keys.

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:03 pm  

Well I'll hold my hand up then, both of my kids went to CofE primary and secondary schools and you know my attitude on organised religion of any kind

Why ?
Because both schools were the best available in the area.

Hypocrite ?
Yep, I can understand that accusation entirely.

Do I give a fook ?
No.


The only thing that mattered to me was that they got the best that was available at the time, if the other school in our area now surpasses the one that they went to then I'd want to send them there instead, neither school over-emphasised on religion, when they studied religion they did the whole national curriculum and studied other religions too so they weren't heavily indoctrinated into the CofE, neither of them have ever been to church since, neither of them seem phased by their experience although both of them agree that the Primary school headteacher was a bloody embarrassment every time he got his guitar out in assembly to sing happy-clappy hymns.

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:12 pm  

Out of interest, if Mrs Aardvark brought forth some school age progeny today, what schools of reasonable quality are there in the Bradford area which are genuinely purely secular?

I had an RC schooling even though I worked out for myself at quite an early age that the religion thing was bollox, but sent my kids to RC schools, (a) judged by these being the highest standard schools available and (b) as an on-paper RC, I could. They were accepting an ever-increasing number of non-RC kids anyway (though tbf those kids were usually of some other equally absurd 'faith', rather than none).

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:17 pm  

McLaren_Field wrote: The only thing that mattered to me was that they got the best that was available at the time, if the other school in our area now surpasses the one that they went to then I'd want to send them there instead, neither school over-emphasised on religion, when they studied religion they did the whole national curriculum and studied other religions too so they weren't heavily indoctrinated into the CofE, neither of them have ever been to church since, neither of them seem phased by their experience although both of them agree that the Primary school headteacher was a bloody embarrassment every time he got his guitar out in assembly to sing happy-clappy hymns. The concern is more about secondary education, I think. See this link for an article by the Head of Science at one of the academies set up under Tony Blair: Disturbing.

McLaren_Field wrote: The only thing that mattered to me was that they got the best that was available at the time, if the other school in our area now surpasses the one that they went to then I'd want to send them there instead, neither school over-emphasised on religion, when they studied religion they did the whole national curriculum and studied other religions too so they weren't heavily indoctrinated into the CofE, neither of them have ever been to church since, neither of them seem phased by their experience although both of them agree that the Primary school headteacher was a bloody embarrassment every time he got his guitar out in assembly to sing happy-clappy hymns. The concern is more about secondary education, I think. See this link for an article by the Head of Science at one of the academies set up under Tony Blair: Disturbing.

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:22 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Out of interest, if Mrs Aardvark brought forth some school age progeny today, what schools of reasonable quality are there in the Bradford area which are genuinely purely secular?

I had an RC schooling even though I worked out for myself at quite an early age that the religion thing was bollox, but sent my kids to RC schools, (a) judged by these being the highest standard schools available and (b) as an on-paper RC, I could. They were accepting an ever-increasing number of non-RC kids anyway (though tbf those kids were usually of some other equally absurd 'faith', rather than none).

But suppose you had a really good state school (hard to imagine, I know) that everyone wanted to get into. If it was oversubscribed, they could quite easily use faith as a way of allowing some pupils a place and rejecting others. I don't think this is necessarily a concern in most cases, but it could be in some.

My biggest concern with the whole thing is from a curriculum angle. If the church becomes the biggest provider of education (funded by the taxpayer, let's not forget), how long before they feel bold enough to start making some pretty drastic changes to science curricula and the like?

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:46 pm  

God could really reform education where atheist have failed.

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:33 pm  

Rock God X wrote: The concern is more about secondary education, I think. See this link for an article by the Head of Science at one of the academies set up under Tony Blair: Disturbing. I started to read through it but frankly soon stopped as my brain could easily consign it to the "bollax" section of the brain filing cabinet, the fact that its from a head of a college that Tony Blair set up does not surprise in the slightest, after all Tony Blair, once at the head of a nuclear armed nation, was a man who spoke openly of asking a god for advice. The acid test is, "If I turned up at the college open day and this man spoke, or they handed around information based on that clap-trap, would I send my child to that college ?" and the answer is a resounding NO and I suspect that the majority would be too, a college funded in such a manner will stand or fall by its attendees and subscribers. By comparison the old dears who ran the C0fE schools that my kids attended thought the vicar walked on water but couldn't preach a shopping list at you if they tried.

Rock God X wrote: The concern is more about secondary education, I think. See this link for an article by the Head of Science at one of the academies set up under Tony Blair: Disturbing. I started to read through it but frankly soon stopped as my brain could easily consign it to the "bollax" section of the brain filing cabinet, the fact that its from a head of a college that Tony Blair set up does not surprise in the slightest, after all Tony Blair, once at the head of a nuclear armed nation, was a man who spoke openly of asking a god for advice. The acid test is, "If I turned up at the college open day and this man spoke, or they handed around information based on that clap-trap, would I send my child to that college ?" and the answer is a resounding NO and I suspect that the majority would be too, a college funded in such a manner will stand or fall by its attendees and subscribers. By comparison the old dears who ran the C0fE schools that my kids attended thought the vicar walked on water but couldn't preach a shopping list at you if they tried.

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:49 pm  

I'll give you an example of church manipulation of its followers which could easily have applied in the Middle Ages but actually happened at the primary school that my kids attended.

Our business accountant managed to get himself volunteered to be the treasurer of the PTA at the school but even he couldn't answer this one without shrugging his shoulders and laughing ...

The school was built in the 1960s in a new suburb and by the 1970s needed more classrooms, so they purchased via a loan from the Church of England several of those "temporary" classrooms that were all the rage in the 1970s, the ones that ended up being "permanent" rather than "temporary".

Stop here and lets remind ourselves, the C0fE owns the land, the school buildings, and all its assets.
The C0fE bought its own additional classrooms, using its own money, to add to its own asset list.

OK so far ?

The Cof E then tells the school governors that the money to pay for the doubling of the school capacity is in fact a twenty year loan repayable to the CofE and suggests that they start fund raising, so they did and for the next 20 years the PTA had a target of cash to raise every year via all the usual means.

Our accountant was the treasurer when the last payment of the loan was made and rather jokingly I asked him one day who owned the deeds for the buildings - the PTA ?

No, of course it was the CofE who owned the additional classrooms, they'd got someone else to pay off the money that they lent to themselves to buy their own asset.

What a wonderful scam, I tried to suggest to the Nationwide that they actually hold a bring and buy sale at their head office in order to pay my mortgage this month, but they just laughed.

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:09 pm  

McLaren_Field wrote:

The acid test is, "If I turned up at the college open day and this man spoke, or they handed around information based on that clap-trap, would I send my child to that college ?" and the answer is a resounding NO and I suspect that the majority would be too, a college funded in such a manner will stand or fall by its attendees and subscribers.

The point is, it will be funded by you and I. And every other tax payer. And if the CoE become the state's largest provider of education as they plan to (seemingly with government backing), it might not be as easy as simply saying "well, I won't send my children there". What if the next nearest school is also a faith academy? Even if it's not, why should the taxpayer pay for such nonsense to be taught in our schools when belief in a deity is at an all time low. Just 3.6% of the population say that they attend a church once a month or more, and yet the church could be in a position of great influence if these proposals go ahead.

The other issue, of course, is that they're probably unlikely to preach this sort of sh*t at the open day, they'll wait until they have people enrolled their children before the full horror becomes known.

Re: Prevent The Church Hijacking Our Schools : Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:41 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

The point is, it will be funded by you and I. And every other tax payer. And if the CoE become the state's largest provider of education as they plan to (seemingly with government backing), it might not be as easy as simply saying "well, I won't send my children there". What if the next nearest school is also a faith academy? Even if it's not, why should the taxpayer pay for such nonsense to be taught in our schools when belief in a deity is at an all time low. Just 3.6% of the population say that they attend a church once a month or more, and yet the church could be in a position of great influence if these proposals go ahead.

The other issue, of course, is that they're probably unlikely to preach this sort of sh*t at the open day, they'll wait until they have people enrolled their children before the full horror becomes known.

By you and me, please. Not by you and I. Did you get your C at GCSE English?