[Durham Giant]

Rip Off Britain part 10 : Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:10 am  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19833237 so now we have NHS trusts charging for ambulances when you have an accident now the highways agency. Soon the poor wont be be able to have accidents.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19833237 so now we have NHS trusts charging for ambulances when you have an accident now the highways agency. Soon the poor wont be be able to have accidents.

Re: Rip Off Britain part 10 : Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:38 am  

Durham Giant wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19833237

so now we have NHS trusts charging for ambulances when you have an accident now the highways agency.

Soon the poor wont be be able to have accidents.

1. Complete straw man, as if she has motor insurance, they pay it all. The driver's means are irrelevant.

2. Let's say this woman had come speeding around the bend outside your house, negligently lost control, smashed into your parked car and ploughed into your garden, demolishing your garden wall, bay window, and injuring your kids. They need 6 months intensive physiotherapy each but you haven't got the money

Which of the following would you let her off, and why:-

1. Cost of repairing garden and wall
2. Cost of rebuilding the front of your house
3. Replacement cost of your written off car
4. As you are only third party, and need a car for working in or your family has no income, the cost of a temporary hire car
5. Costs incurred by the emergency services inc. ambulances and hospitals
6. Compensation for your children for their serious injuries
7. Cost of your kids' physiotherapy

Of course, it would be the driver's insurance company that paid all these costs. That's why you get insured. In fact, any loss you cause through your negligence, you should pay for and that's the bottom line. If you paid your premium then all it will cost you is your no claims bonus and increased future premiums. So unless you can put forward a convincing argument why the driver should be "let off" with any of the above, i.e. that expense instead falls on some totally innocent party (in your example, it would be the general taxpayer) then I just don't get your point.

If she is insured then her motor insurer will pay. They only have to pay for items for which she is liable. If you let her off any of the items then her insurance company is the ONLY entity that profits, and directly at the expense of the public purse. Why do you want to give them this financial windfall?

Re: Rip Off Britain part 10 : Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:46 am  

The only thing I would question in that article is the very last couple of paragraphs from the association which represents the contractors employed by the Highways Agency, the HTMA.

The Highways Agency themselves are a government department and their staff do a very good and often dangerous job as I discovered when a car I was travelling in had an offside rear flat tyre that needed a wheel change on the hard shoulder last year, The Highways Agency were called and they covered our backs while we changed the wheel - quite a frightening thing to do with huge trucks passing inches by your heels at 50/60mph.

But as a government department their costs are covered, their employees shifts are paid for in full, they'd be paid if they had no call outs or a hundred call outs per week, thats what some of our taxes are paid for, you might argue that that is what the road fund licence os for (although we all know it disappears into a black hole of the treasury).

The contractors who are called out to repair barriers and road surfaces after an incident are a different matter, I presume that they are on a standby contract with a structured fee per callout, or at least that is the way it would and is done in the industry that I work in, and again, presumably they are paid by The Highways Agency - so why would they be seeking to recover costs from individuals, are they saying that they don't get reimbursed by the Highways Agency, or that they don't get reimbursed enough by The Highways Agency, are they just recovering the difference between their fixed call out fee and what the call out actually cost, or are they billing for the whole call out when in fact The Highway Agency has already paid them for the job ?

Presumably everyone gets paid at the end of the day - so why seek to recover the costs from motorists who have already paid for the facility through taxation, is this the thin edge of a wedge to charge for motorway use ?

Re: Rip Off Britain part 10 : Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:06 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

...

The contractors who are called out to repair barriers and road surfaces after an incident are a different matter, I presume that they are on a standby contract with a structured fee per callout, or at least that is the way it would and is done in the industry that I work in, and again, presumably they are paid by The Highways Agency - so why would they be seeking to recover costs from individuals, are they saying that they don't get reimbursed by the Highways Agency, or that they don't get reimbursed enough by The Highways Agency, are they just recovering the difference between their fixed call out fee and what the call out actually cost, or are they billing for the whole call out when in fact The Highway Agency has already paid them for the job ?

Presumably everyone gets paid at the end of the day - so why seek to recover the costs from motorists who have already paid for the facility through taxation, is this the thin edge of a wedge to charge for motorway use ?

It doesn't work like that on H.A contracts. These days, when they bid for the "franchise" the contractors have to say that they will charge £x million to attend and deal with all accidents over the length of the contract. This is of course anybodies guess as to how many accidents and the amount of damage that may be caused to the infrastructure in those incidents over the length of the contract (usually 5 -7yr's but 30 years in the instance of the M25 contract) So, if they under-estimate or use it as a "loss-leader" to win the contract they are going to try and claim back every penny they can off whoever they can on each occasion. Before these so called "super agency" agencies were let, it was H.A policy (they chased the money in those days) that if an invoice came to less than £250, they never chased it as admin costs pushed it past this amount

Re: Rip Off Britain part 10 : Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:06 pm  

Blazingsmoke Bronco wrote:

It doesn't work like that on H.A contracts. These days, when they bid for the "franchise" the contractors have to say that they will charge £x million to attend and deal with all accidents over the length of the contract. This is of course anybodies guess as to how many accidents and the amount of damage that may be caused to the infrastructure in those incidents over the length of the contract (usually 5 -7yr's but 30 years in the instance of the M25 contract) So, if they under-estimate or use it as a "loss-leader" to win the contract they are going to try and claim back every penny they can off whoever they can on each occasion. Before these so called "super agency" agencies were let, it was H.A policy (they chased the money in those days) that if an invoice came to less than £250, they never chased it as admin costs pushed it past this amount

Then frankly that is a crazy system and you can see why a company would be so keen to try every avenue to increase revenue - if indeed its them that pockets the income.

The company I work for has weekend call-out cover for several of the large supermarket chains and for all of them the system that THEY adopt is a "voucher" system where they pay a small retainer for 52 weekends worth of engineer standby time and then any call outs are charged at one "voucher" each, the cost of the voucher being the bit that is negotiated every three years.

It suits all partners, the supermarkets don't pay for anything that they don't use (no supermarket likes doing that) and we only charge when we work and don't have to stick our neck on the line with guestimates as to when we'll be used.

Re: Rip Off Britain part 10 : Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:33 pm  

McLaren_Field wrote:

Then frankly that is a crazy system and you can see why a company would be so keen to try every avenue to increase revenue - if indeed its them that pockets the income.

The company I work for has weekend call-out cover for several of the large supermarket chains and for all of them the system that THEY adopt is a "voucher" system where they pay a small retainer for 52 weekends worth of engineer standby time and then any call outs are charged at one "voucher" each, the cost of the voucher being the bit that is negotiated every three years.

It suits all partners, the supermarkets don't pay for anything that they don't use (no supermarket likes doing that) and we only charge when we work and don't have to stick our neck on the line with guestimates as to when we'll be used.

We don't do that in IT support (both on-site h/w and remote s/w o/s etc) for the reason that with a "voucher" system companies would be reluctant to use it, and often hold off using it for what might start as a minor problem. Then it becomes a bigger problem and causes more service issues, more impact and is harder for us to fix.

With enough data and enough scale of operation you can get your numbers and forecasts usually right. The other plus point for the client is that the supplier is incented to work to reduce the number of incidents, which can reduce their costs.

Re: Rip Off Britain part 10 : Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:16 pm  

I think the issue here is that work is being billed for that either hasn't been done, need not been done, or has been done and charged at a grossly over-inflated rate. The sort of thing that might (allegedly) go on at car garages, or firms of solicitors.

Whilst working for a large government department, every now and again, the lights would go off because a fuse had tripped. This was no problem, because we all knew where the fuse box was, and it took 2 seconds to sort.

We notified the maintenance contractor of this recurring problem. Their solution? Put a padlock on the fuse box and produce a £75.00 bill every time they were called out to flip the switch.

Re: Rip Off Britain part 10 : Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:35 pm  

McLaren_Field wrote:

Then frankly that is a crazy system and you can see why a company would be so keen to try every avenue to increase revenue - if indeed its them that pockets the income.

The company I work for has weekend call-out cover for several of the large supermarket chains and for all of them the system that THEY adopt is a "voucher" system where they pay a small retainer for 52 weekends worth of engineer standby time and then any call outs are charged at one "voucher" each, the cost of the voucher being the bit that is negotiated every three years.

It suits all partners, the supermarkets don't pay for anything that they don't use (no supermarket likes doing that) and we only charge when we work and don't have to stick our neck on the line with guestimates as to when we'll be used.

It's not a system I agree with, far from it. But it's the system H.A use and all contractors play by those rules, so whoever wins the contract is going to chase the money. For the record, the company I work for take photos at every scene as supporting evidence, from the mundane oil spillage, a safety fence strike or resurfacing after spillages etc. The flip-side to the story is that many drivers deny causing the damage, but photos soon sort this out

Re: Rip Off Britain part 10 : Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:45 pm  

If you want something to get worried about, worry about this.

If you want something to get worried about, worry about this.

Re: Rip Off Britain part 10 : Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:11 pm  

Blazingsmoke Bronco wrote:

It's not a system I agree with, far from it. But it's the system H.A use and all contractors play by those rules, so whoever wins the contract is going to chase the money. For the record, the company I work for take photos at every scene as supporting evidence, from the mundane oil spillage, a safety fence strike or resurfacing after spillages etc. The flip-side to the story is that many drivers deny causing the damage, but photos soon sort this out

They can take all the pictures they want, proving that the driver is liable to pay these charges is very debatable.