I thought the Conservatives wanted to roll back the State? : Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:04 pm  

Not much evidence of that in the proposals for the introduction of minimum price for alcohol. Quite what they hope to achieve is beyond me. They seem to be basing their information on dodgy findings from Sheffield University and claim that it will reduce binge and problem drinking. It will do nothing of the sort. The problem with regularly drinking to excess is one of culture, not price. Visit France, Germany or any of the Benelux countries and you'll be able to buy booze in a supermarket for less (sometimes substantially so) than in any UK supermarket. Then go out for a drink in those same countries and you'll usually be paying more than in any equivalent British pub. Their price differential between a retail outlet and a bar is far greater than ours and yet the only problem they seem to have with drinkers is when a load of Brits go out on the lash. It isn't the exchequer who will benefit (it's not an excise duty), apart from a miniscule increase in VAT receipts, it is the retailer. Tesco are in favour, Morrison's have come out against it. The biggest losers will not be the problem drinkers, they'll just fund their boozing by spending less on food etc. Those proposing and enacting the legislation won't feel the pinch either because they probably pay far more than 45p per unit for their single malts and fine wines. No, the hardest hit will be those whose budgets are already stretched but enjoy a bevvy at home (usually because they can't afford to go down the pub anymore or their local has shut up shop). So much for rolling back the state, this is the sort of nanny-government even Tony Blair would've steered well clear of.

Not much evidence of that in the proposals for the introduction of minimum price for alcohol. Quite what they hope to achieve is beyond me. They seem to be basing their information on dodgy findings from Sheffield University and claim that it will reduce binge and problem drinking. It will do nothing of the sort. The problem with regularly drinking to excess is one of culture, not price. Visit France, Germany or any of the Benelux countries and you'll be able to buy booze in a supermarket for less (sometimes substantially so) than in any UK supermarket. Then go out for a drink in those same countries and you'll usually be paying more than in any equivalent British pub. Their price differential between a retail outlet and a bar is far greater than ours and yet the only problem they seem to have with drinkers is when a load of Brits go out on the lash. It isn't the exchequer who will benefit (it's not an excise duty), apart from a miniscule increase in VAT receipts, it is the retailer. Tesco are in favour, Morrison's have come out against it. The biggest losers will not be the problem drinkers, they'll just fund their boozing by spending less on food etc. Those proposing and enacting the legislation won't feel the pinch either because they probably pay far more than 45p per unit for their single malts and fine wines. No, the hardest hit will be those whose budgets are already stretched but enjoy a bevvy at home (usually because they can't afford to go down the pub anymore or their local has shut up shop). So much for rolling back the state, this is the sort of nanny-government even Tony Blair would've steered well clear of.

Re: I thought the Conservatives wanted to roll back the Stat : Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:32 pm  

The biggest danger may be East Europeans selling home made vodka to fill the void. That stuff can be very dangerous.

Re: I thought the Conservatives wanted to roll back the Stat : Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:04 pm  

I can safely say that it will not affect me one iota *crosses arms and sits back smugly*

Re: I thought the Conservatives wanted to roll back the Stat : Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:18 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

I can safely say that it will not affect me one iota *crosses arms and sits back smugly*

You'll be wearing magic underpants next.

Re: I thought the Conservatives wanted to roll back the Stat : Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:41 pm  

Well, for a start off, the OP seems to have forgotten that we don't have a Tory government. We have a coalition. So whether the Tories want to roll back the State or not, they would only be able to do so if the Liberals agreed.

Having gotten that rather obvious point out of the way, short of returning to a regime of more limited opening hours - something that I'd love given what has happened in my area since the opening hours were extended - hiking up the prices will make people think twice about how much booze they buy and that can only be a good thing.

However, even if the law is passed, the EU may intervene - something about anti competition rules - and so it all may be for nothing anyway. But the government can but try to rule its own country even though the attempt may be fruitless ultimately.

Re: I thought the Conservatives wanted to roll back the Stat : Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:54 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

So whether the Tories want to roll back the State or not, they would only be able to do so if the Liberals agreed.

Re: I thought the Conservatives wanted to roll back the Stat : Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:28 pm  

Probably tokenesque press regulation to be announced shortly as well.

Where will this Tory state nannyism end?

Re: I thought the Conservatives wanted to roll back the Stat : Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:57 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Well, for a start off, the OP seems to have forgotten that we don't have a Tory government. We have a coalition. So whether the Tories want to roll back the State or not, they would only be able to do so if the Liberals agreed.

Wahey, here we go again.... Tories make the good decisions, LibDems the bad.

Personally, and as an enthusiastic drinker of what is known as 'Real Ale', I think this is a good thing. It's not going to affect the price of beer in pubs as they're always above the minimum cost due to the ridiculous "escalator +" price rises.
My hope is that it'll affect the tax dodging supermarket giants and encourage people back to the good old fashioned boozer, saving a dying breed in the process.

Re: I thought the Conservatives wanted to roll back the Stat : Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:23 pm  

I prefer drinking in pubs that at home but if I'm going to a party and want to buy 20 cans to take with me then why should I be forced to pay more than what it is worth?

I hope that all the people who like drinking cheap, strong booze at home do stop buying it and instead make their own beer or wine then the government won't be getting any tax on it.

[DaveO]

Re: I thought the Conservatives wanted to roll back the Stat : Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:35 pm  

Well I am not sure how this will affect prices of mainstream beers and larger's much at all and I don't see how its going to deter anyone even when it does affect the price of cheap booze.

Stella Artois is 4.8% and Tesco sell a pack for four 440ml cans for £4.29. The number of units in a 440ml can is 4.8 * 440 / 1000 so that is about 2.1 units per can.

So 95p a can and given this isn't a tax so the wholesale price and the exchequers cut will be unchanged (bar a tiny increase in VAT) why would the price of this go up?

They sell 8 cans of Abbott Strong Ale for on special offer at £9. They are 500ml cans and its 5% so that would go up to £9.04. Wow.

OK there is a lot of own brand cheapo stuff out there. Tesco's cheapest own bitter is £1 for a four pack but its only 2.1% anyway. So its just less than a unit per can so this would go up to £2.

Their cheapest 2 litre bottle of 5% cider would go from £2.09 to £4.50.

I don't see even these mark ups as deterrent level prices for the determined binge drinker. Get them to a level that would deter and all you get then is smuggling and criminality. Prohibition anyone?

I do see the fact the less well off responsible drinker who might have to go for the cheaper stuff is going to be shafted in the pocket by a policy that probably isn't going to work anyway.