[Durham Giant]

British State collusion in extra judicial murders : Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:06 pm  

according to the report into the killing of solicitor Pat Finucane there was
"no overarching state conspiracy".

Despite the fact the report concluding that the RUC

proposed Mr Finucane, 39, be killed, said they passed information to his killers and failed to stop the attack and then obstructed the murder investigation.

That MI5

received intelligence two months before the killing that Mr Finucane was under threat but that no steps were taken to protect him.

It also found that MI5 helped spread propaganda against Mr Finucane in the years before he was killed.

that the British Army,

Army intelligence unit, the FRU, "bears a degree" of responsibility because one of their agents, Brian Nelson, was involved in selecting targets.

So elements of the Police, MI5 and the army were involved in the organising, killing and cover up of Finucanes murder but they all acted as indaviduals completely independently of each other.

Bearing in mind Security force involvement in many other murders and provision of weapons and intelligence to Loyalist paramilitaries the conclusion of the De Silva report beggars belief.

Re: British State collusion in extra judicial murders : Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:25 pm  

I'm sure that this sort of thing happens in many other countries around the world too.

Re: British State collusion in extra judicial murders : Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:48 pm  

The idea of state sponsored murder is actually very popular in this country. I believe "Skyfall" has made record receipts at the box office this year.

Re: British State collusion in extra judicial murders : Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:38 pm  

Why does it beg belief?

"However, despite the different strands of involvement by elements of the state, I am satisfied that they were not linked to an over-arching state conspiracy to murder Patrick Finucane."

Re: British State collusion in extra judicial murders : Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:15 pm  

Sheldon wrote:

Why does it beg belief?

Well, it's basically saying that these agencies acted on their own accord without top level authorisation. Do we really think that our secret services authorised this kind of activity on its own without any sort of input from the government? That's a big risk especially when you consider how strained relations were in Northern Ireland at the time. Would a government agency collude with the loyalists off its own back?

Re: British State collusion in extra judicial murders : Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:45 pm  

So you only accept parts of the report you agree with?

Re: British State collusion in extra judicial murders : Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:45 pm  

Yes I believe they would, i also believe it probably wasn't the "agencies" per se but elements within them who were often given virtual free reign with little oversight or accountability. These were people operating at the sharpest of sharp ends of a dirty world, I don't find it unreasonable to think they would step over the line without direct, or even implied, authorisation or instruction from higher up. I would also find it hard to believe that a member of the government would lay themselves open to prosecution by ordering or authorising the murder of a man like Finucan.
It's not an episode of Spooks.

Re: British State collusion in extra judicial murders : Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:11 am  

McClennan wrote:

Well, it's basically saying that these agencies acted on their own accord without top level authorisation.

Yep, that's a chalk mark in the "Somnambulist Theory" column.

You see, guys like Reagan (and even Blair) were masters at digging themselves out of such mire.

"Well, golly, I really should have paid more attention when the secret services were briefing me. Had I known THIS sort of stuff was going on I'd have quickly put a stop to it. It's just not the British thing. As you know I'm for life ..."

Re: British State collusion in extra judicial murders : Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:46 pm  

More evidence of state illegality. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20715507 I'm only ever surprised by the people that are surprised that it happens.

More evidence of state illegality. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20715507 I'm only ever surprised by the people that are surprised that it happens.

Re: British State collusion in extra judicial murders : Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:57 pm  

Sheldon wrote:

So you only accept parts of the report you agree with?

You will forgive me if after the Hillsborough failings (not to mention the many other deliberate political lies and cover-ups) if I bare on the side of critical thinking when non-independent reports like this come out. Hillsborough, you may remember, had a similar inquiry that wasn't independent and had a same approach to justice. It took an independent inquiry to unearth the truth and it's also why I want no part of Parliament legislating around the press. I mean, we can't even trust these MPs to be ethical when it comes to expenses but we're supposed to believe they're as honest as our mums when it comes to questionable government policies? There was collusion admitted in this report but we're supposed to believe it was something done off the back of their own inspiration? Come on man.