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Company cars : Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:16 pm  
Can someone explain the tax system behind this please?

I'm self employed with a limited company, VAT registered. I've never really looked into leasing a car in the past but I'm considering it as an option now if it's financially viable.

What things affect my tax?
I believe I can't claim all the VAT back due to the vehicle being for personal use?
What impact does the value of the car have on my tax?
What impact does the CO2 have on my tax?
Does my salary have any affect on the car I can have?

As ever, any help is appreciated.

P>S> I am aware that I can go and see my accountant about this but January is her busiest time so I don't want to bother her for a 20 minute conversation yet.
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Re: Company cars : Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:29 pm  
Pemps wrote:
Can someone explain the tax system behind this please?

I'm self employed with a limited company, VAT registered. I've never really looked into leasing a car in the past but I'm considering it as an option now if it's financially viable.

What things affect my tax?
I believe I can't claim all the VAT back due to the vehicle being for personal use?
What impact does the value of the car have on my tax?
What impact does the CO2 have on my tax?
Does my salary have any affect on the car I can have?

As ever, any help is appreciated.

P>S> I am aware that I can go and see my accountant about this but January is her busiest time so I don't want to bother her for a 20 minute conversation yet.


you pay your accountant, speak to her
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Re: Company cars : Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:08 pm  
Standee wrote:
you pay your accountant, speak to her


What a whopper
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Re: Company cars : Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:14 pm  
In general terms, the decision is about who owns the car - either you as a private individual, which you then use for work and claim back 40p per business mile (for the first 10k miles in each tax year, 25p per mile thereafter) or the legal entity that operates your company owns the car and makes it available to you for business (and probably some private) use; the revenue is quite strict about all of that and it can be complicated.

In short, you have several options and the right one for you depends very much on your personal circumstances; without being in any way smart-arsed, I'd speak to your accountant and get some professional advice, regardless of how busy she is!
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Re: Company cars : Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:22 pm  
bren2k wrote:

In short, you have several options and the right one for you depends very much on your personal circumstances; without being in any way smart-arsed, I'd speak to your accountant and get some professional advice, regardless of how busy she is!


I'd add that making the wrong choice can be quite expensive from a tax code point of view, even choosing the wrong variant of the model (once chosen) can make a big difference and this is one area where you definitely need your accountants advice, first question being how many business miles do you actually do ?

I personally have found a happy medium since I don't do too many business miles these days where I own my car and charge the mileage back to the business, its possible to make a small profit on this until you breach the 10k p.a. limit, if you're below that then I'd seriously look at owning the car - and for that a second hand car would do perfectly well.

But its an accountants question.
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Re: Company cars : Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:59 pm  
assuming your accountant is happy that a car your co purchase for your business use is a company car you will be liable for the taxable value as a benefit in kind which is calculated based on its 'book value' (not the price your company pay unfortunately) and the level of CO2 emissions. What Cars website is a great resource for checking taxable value for every new car model and even includes a calculation of what you will pay at each tax rate 20/40%
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Re: Company cars : Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:23 pm  
You also need to consider whether your company will pay for all your fuel, or just reimburse you at 45p per mile for your business miles.

As a general rule, unless you do a lot of private motoring it usually works out more tax effective for you to just claim mileage.

Speak to your accountant. Most of us have spreadsheet templates set up so we can run through the figures and the various options.
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Re: Company cars : Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:26 pm  
As Andy said, the mileage rate for the first 10,000 miles is now 45p (not 40p). This is the maximum you can claim without any tax liability falling on you. It is a deductible expense for your company. Andy's rule of thumb as to mileage claims v company car is fair comment but you should make assumptions based on your personal circumstances, your car, etc and do the calculations to see the likely effects.

For VAT aspects see here:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/rec ... toring.htm

Most accountants websites / HMRC website will give you information on the benefits in kind position should you decide on a company car - CO2 emissions and all that. Here's one I found:

http://www.leonardjones.co.uk/ard/detai ... &FID=32203

http://www.leonardjones.co.uk/ard/detai ... &FID=32203

Here's some other comments from the above website:

Business Motoring – Tax Aspects
This factsheet focuses on the current tax position of business motoring, a core consideration of many businesses. The aim is to provide a clear explanation of the tax deductions available on different types of vehicle expenditure in a variety of business scenarios.

Methods of acquisition
Motoring costs, like other costs incurred which are wholly and exclusively for the purposes of the trade are tax deductible but the timing of any relief varies considerably according to the type of expenditure. In particular, there is a fundamental distinction between capital costs and ongoing running costs.

Purchase of vehicles

Where vehicles are purchased outright, the accounting treatment is to capitalise the asset and to write off the cost over the useful business life as a deduction against profits. This is known as depreciation.

The same treatment applies to vehicles financed through hire purchase with the equivalent of the cash price being treated as a capital purchase at the start with the addition of a deduction from profit for the finance charge as it arises. However, the tax relief position depends primarily on the type of vehicle, and the date of expenditure.

A tax distinction is made for all businesses between a normal car and other forms of commercial vehicles including vans, lorries and some specialist forms of car such as a driving school car or taxi.

Tax relief on purchases

Vehicles which are not classed as cars are eligible for the Annual Investment Allowance (AIA) for expenditure incurred. This allowance allows a 100% write off against profits on plant and machinery purchases of £25,000 per year (previously £100,000). However it should be noted that for expenditure incurred after the 1/6 April 2012, the maximum allowance that can be attributed to that expenditure is a fraction of £25,000. The fraction will be the amount of the £25,000 that is included in the calculation of the overall AIA for the accounting period.

As the chargeable accounting periods of many businesses will span the operative date of change, a pro rata calculation of their maximum entitlement will be required.

Where purchases exceed the AIA, a writing down allowance (WDA) is due on any excess in the same period. This WDA is at a rate of 18% (previously 20%). Cars are not eligible for the AIA, so will only benefit from the WDA.

Capital allowance boost for low-carbon transport

A 100% first year allowance is available for capital expenditure on new electric vans from 1 April 2010 for companies and 6 April 2010 for an unincorporated business.

Writing Down Allowances (WDA)

WDA rates reduce from April 2012. The main rate of 20% will be reduced to 18% and the lower rate of 10% which applies to some higher emission cars reduces to 8%. It will be necessary to calculate hybrid rates where the accounting period straddles April 2012 which will give a rate between 20% and 18% (or between 10% and 8%) for that period.

Complex cars!
The green car

Cars generally only attract the WDA but there is one exception to this and that is where a business purchases a new car with low emissions – a so called ‘green’ car. Such purchases attract a 100% allowance to encourage businesses to purchase cars which are more environmentally friendly. The 100% write off is only available where the CO2 emissions of the car do not exceed 110 grams per kilometre (g/km). The cost of the car is irrelevant and the allowance is available to all types of business.

When did you buy?

There have been significant changes to the basis of capital allowances for car purchases and the tax relief thereon from 1 April 2009 for companies and 6 April 2009 for individuals in business.

For purchases from April 2009:

The annual allowance is dependent on the CO2 emissions of the car rather than the cost.

Cars between 111 -160 g/km are placed in the main pool and will qualify for an annual allowance of 18% (previously 20%).
Cars in excess of 160 g/km are placed in the special rate pool and will qualify for an annual allowance of 8% (previously 10%).
If a used car is purchased with CO2 emissions of 110 g/km or less, this will be placed in the main pool and will receive an annual allowance of 18% (previously 20%).

Any cars used by the self employed where there is part non-business use will still be separately allocated to a single asset pool. The annual allowance will initially be either the current 18% or 8% (previously 20% and 10%) depending on the CO2 emissions and then the available allowance will be restricted for the private use element.

For purchases before April 2009 the following rules apply:

Cars costing up to £12,000 were included in the main plant pool and get the annual 18% (previously 20%) reducing allowance only.

Cars costing more than £12,000 (so called expensive cars) usually had to be allocated to a separate single asset pool. Each qualifies for the annual allowance of 18% (previously 20%) but with a maximum annual allowance on each car of £3,000. On disposal of each separate asset an extra allowance is available on any overall net cost.

Any cars used by the self employed with part non business use were also separately allocated to a single asset pool so that any private use element can be restricted. This does not apply to employee provided cars.

Example

A company purchases two cars for £20,000 in its 12 month accounting period to 31 March 2012. The dates of purchase and CO2 emissions are as follows:

White car
Blue car

1 May 2011 1 May 2011
145 165

Allowances in the year to 31 March 2012 relating to these purchases will be:

White car (main pool as emissions less than 160)
Blue car (special rate pool as emissions more than 160)

£20,000 @ 20% = £4,000
No capping £20,000 @ 10% = £2,000

In the following year to 31 March 2013 the allowances will be:

White
Blue

£16,000 @ 18% = £2,880 £18,000 @ 8% = £1,440

Future changes

Cars with emissions between 111 - 160gm/km inclusive currently qualify for main rate WDA. The threshold is to be revised down to 130gm/km for additions from 1 April 2013 for businesses within the charge to corporation tax and 6 April 2013 for businesses in the charge to income tax.

The 100% first year allowance (FYA) available on new low emission cars purchased (not leased) by a business is revised and extended with effect from 1 April 2013. The current rule is that a 100% FYA is generally available where a car’s emissions do not exceed 110 gm/km until 31 March 2013. The availability of a 100% FYA is to continue for a further two years for purchases from 1 April 2013 but only where emissions do not exceed 95gm/km.

Disposals

Where there is a disposal of plant and machinery from the main or special rate pools any balance of expenditure, after taking into account sale proceeds, continues to attract the annual allowance.

Where there is a disposal of a car held in a single asset pool, there is an additional allowance if there is an unrelieved cost. This is often referred to as a balancing allowance.

This applies to:

cars which cost greater than £12,000 prior to April 2009
any cars used by the self employed with part non business use whenever purchased.
In the less usual situation of a car disposal where all costs have been recovered and there is an excess of sale proceeds then this is clawed back as a ‘negative’ capital allowance.

What if vehicles are leased?
The first fact to establish with a leased vehicle is whether the lease is really a rental agreement or whether it is a type of purchase agreement, usually referred to as a finance lease. This is because there is a distinction between the accounting and tax treatment of different types of leases.

Tax treatment of rental type operating leases (contract hire)

The lease payments on operating leases are treated like rent and are deductible against profits. However where the lease relates to a car there may be a portion disallowed for tax.

For 2009/10 onwards for new lease agreements a disallowance of 15% will apply for cars with CO2 emissions which exceed 160 g/km.

For 2008/09 and earlier years this applies where the car has CO2 emissions in excess of 110 g/km and a retail price when new which exceeds £12,000. An adjustment is made to disallow part of that excess. These rules continue to apply for lease agreements entered into before 1 April 2009 for companies and 6 April 2009 for businesses within the charge to income tax.

Example

Contract signed 1 April 2009 by a company:

The car has CO2 emissions of 166 g/km and a £6,000 annual lease charge. The disallowed portion would be £900 (15%) so £5,100 would be tax deductible.

Contract signed pre 1 April 2009 by a company:

The car has CO2 emissions of 175 g/km, a retail list price of £20,000 and an annual lease charge of £6,000 There would be a disallowance of £1,200 (calculated by applying a formula) so only £4,800 would be tax deductible.

Tax treatment of finance leased assets

These will generally be included in your accounts as fixed assets and depreciated over the useful business life but as these vehicles do not qualify as a purchase at the outset, the expenditure does not qualify for capital allowances unless classified as a long funded lease. Tax relief is generally obtained instead by allowing the accounting depreciation and any interest/finance charges in the profit and loss account - a little unusual but a simple solution! A disallowance still applies if the vehicle is an expensive car.

Private use of business vehicles

The private use of a business vehicle has tax implications for either the business or the individual depending on the type of business and vehicle.

Sole traders and partners

Where you are in business on your own account and use a vehicle owned by the business - irrespective of whether it is a car or van - the business will only be able to claim the business portion of any allowances. This applies to capital allowances, rental and lease costs, and other running costs such as servicing, fuel etc.

Providing vehicles to employees

Where vehicles are provided to employees irrespective of the form of business structure - sole trader/partnership/ company - a taxable benefit generally arises for private use. A tax charge will also apply where private fuel is provided for use in an employer provided vehicle. For the employer such taxable benefits attract 13.8% (12.8% before 6 April 2011) Class 1A National Insurance.

Vans
No charge applies where employees have the use of a van and a restricted private use condition is met. For details on what this means please contact us. Where the condition is not met there is a flat rate charge per annum of £3,000 for the unrestricted private use plus an additional £550 for private fuel.


So, you can now speak to your accountant from a position of knowledge and hone your questions accordingly! Alternatively, you could try to calculate yourself based on reasonable assumptions and then ask her to look over your workings!
As Andy said, the mileage rate for the first 10,000 miles is now 45p (not 40p). This is the maximum you can claim without any tax liability falling on you. It is a deductible expense for your company. Andy's rule of thumb as to mileage claims v company car is fair comment but you should make assumptions based on your personal circumstances, your car, etc and do the calculations to see the likely effects.

For VAT aspects see here:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/rec ... toring.htm

Most accountants websites / HMRC website will give you information on the benefits in kind position should you decide on a company car - CO2 emissions and all that. Here's one I found:

http://www.leonardjones.co.uk/ard/detai ... &FID=32203

http://www.leonardjones.co.uk/ard/detai ... &FID=32203

Here's some other comments from the above website:

Business Motoring – Tax Aspects
This factsheet focuses on the current tax position of business motoring, a core consideration of many businesses. The aim is to provide a clear explanation of the tax deductions available on different types of vehicle expenditure in a variety of business scenarios.

Methods of acquisition
Motoring costs, like other costs incurred which are wholly and exclusively for the purposes of the trade are tax deductible but the timing of any relief varies considerably according to the type of expenditure. In particular, there is a fundamental distinction between capital costs and ongoing running costs.

Purchase of vehicles

Where vehicles are purchased outright, the accounting treatment is to capitalise the asset and to write off the cost over the useful business life as a deduction against profits. This is known as depreciation.

The same treatment applies to vehicles financed through hire purchase with the equivalent of the cash price being treated as a capital purchase at the start with the addition of a deduction from profit for the finance charge as it arises. However, the tax relief position depends primarily on the type of vehicle, and the date of expenditure.

A tax distinction is made for all businesses between a normal car and other forms of commercial vehicles including vans, lorries and some specialist forms of car such as a driving school car or taxi.

Tax relief on purchases

Vehicles which are not classed as cars are eligible for the Annual Investment Allowance (AIA) for expenditure incurred. This allowance allows a 100% write off against profits on plant and machinery purchases of £25,000 per year (previously £100,000). However it should be noted that for expenditure incurred after the 1/6 April 2012, the maximum allowance that can be attributed to that expenditure is a fraction of £25,000. The fraction will be the amount of the £25,000 that is included in the calculation of the overall AIA for the accounting period.

As the chargeable accounting periods of many businesses will span the operative date of change, a pro rata calculation of their maximum entitlement will be required.

Where purchases exceed the AIA, a writing down allowance (WDA) is due on any excess in the same period. This WDA is at a rate of 18% (previously 20%). Cars are not eligible for the AIA, so will only benefit from the WDA.

Capital allowance boost for low-carbon transport

A 100% first year allowance is available for capital expenditure on new electric vans from 1 April 2010 for companies and 6 April 2010 for an unincorporated business.

Writing Down Allowances (WDA)

WDA rates reduce from April 2012. The main rate of 20% will be reduced to 18% and the lower rate of 10% which applies to some higher emission cars reduces to 8%. It will be necessary to calculate hybrid rates where the accounting period straddles April 2012 which will give a rate between 20% and 18% (or between 10% and 8%) for that period.

Complex cars!
The green car

Cars generally only attract the WDA but there is one exception to this and that is where a business purchases a new car with low emissions – a so called ‘green’ car. Such purchases attract a 100% allowance to encourage businesses to purchase cars which are more environmentally friendly. The 100% write off is only available where the CO2 emissions of the car do not exceed 110 grams per kilometre (g/km). The cost of the car is irrelevant and the allowance is available to all types of business.

When did you buy?

There have been significant changes to the basis of capital allowances for car purchases and the tax relief thereon from 1 April 2009 for companies and 6 April 2009 for individuals in business.

For purchases from April 2009:

The annual allowance is dependent on the CO2 emissions of the car rather than the cost.

Cars between 111 -160 g/km are placed in the main pool and will qualify for an annual allowance of 18% (previously 20%).
Cars in excess of 160 g/km are placed in the special rate pool and will qualify for an annual allowance of 8% (previously 10%).
If a used car is purchased with CO2 emissions of 110 g/km or less, this will be placed in the main pool and will receive an annual allowance of 18% (previously 20%).

Any cars used by the self employed where there is part non-business use will still be separately allocated to a single asset pool. The annual allowance will initially be either the current 18% or 8% (previously 20% and 10%) depending on the CO2 emissions and then the available allowance will be restricted for the private use element.

For purchases before April 2009 the following rules apply:

Cars costing up to £12,000 were included in the main plant pool and get the annual 18% (previously 20%) reducing allowance only.

Cars costing more than £12,000 (so called expensive cars) usually had to be allocated to a separate single asset pool. Each qualifies for the annual allowance of 18% (previously 20%) but with a maximum annual allowance on each car of £3,000. On disposal of each separate asset an extra allowance is available on any overall net cost.

Any cars used by the self employed with part non business use were also separately allocated to a single asset pool so that any private use element can be restricted. This does not apply to employee provided cars.

Example

A company purchases two cars for £20,000 in its 12 month accounting period to 31 March 2012. The dates of purchase and CO2 emissions are as follows:

White car
Blue car

1 May 2011 1 May 2011
145 165

Allowances in the year to 31 March 2012 relating to these purchases will be:

White car (main pool as emissions less than 160)
Blue car (special rate pool as emissions more than 160)

£20,000 @ 20% = £4,000
No capping £20,000 @ 10% = £2,000

In the following year to 31 March 2013 the allowances will be:

White
Blue

£16,000 @ 18% = £2,880 £18,000 @ 8% = £1,440

Future changes

Cars with emissions between 111 - 160gm/km inclusive currently qualify for main rate WDA. The threshold is to be revised down to 130gm/km for additions from 1 April 2013 for businesses within the charge to corporation tax and 6 April 2013 for businesses in the charge to income tax.

The 100% first year allowance (FYA) available on new low emission cars purchased (not leased) by a business is revised and extended with effect from 1 April 2013. The current rule is that a 100% FYA is generally available where a car’s emissions do not exceed 110 gm/km until 31 March 2013. The availability of a 100% FYA is to continue for a further two years for purchases from 1 April 2013 but only where emissions do not exceed 95gm/km.

Disposals

Where there is a disposal of plant and machinery from the main or special rate pools any balance of expenditure, after taking into account sale proceeds, continues to attract the annual allowance.

Where there is a disposal of a car held in a single asset pool, there is an additional allowance if there is an unrelieved cost. This is often referred to as a balancing allowance.

This applies to:

cars which cost greater than £12,000 prior to April 2009
any cars used by the self employed with part non business use whenever purchased.
In the less usual situation of a car disposal where all costs have been recovered and there is an excess of sale proceeds then this is clawed back as a ‘negative’ capital allowance.

What if vehicles are leased?
The first fact to establish with a leased vehicle is whether the lease is really a rental agreement or whether it is a type of purchase agreement, usually referred to as a finance lease. This is because there is a distinction between the accounting and tax treatment of different types of leases.

Tax treatment of rental type operating leases (contract hire)

The lease payments on operating leases are treated like rent and are deductible against profits. However where the lease relates to a car there may be a portion disallowed for tax.

For 2009/10 onwards for new lease agreements a disallowance of 15% will apply for cars with CO2 emissions which exceed 160 g/km.

For 2008/09 and earlier years this applies where the car has CO2 emissions in excess of 110 g/km and a retail price when new which exceeds £12,000. An adjustment is made to disallow part of that excess. These rules continue to apply for lease agreements entered into before 1 April 2009 for companies and 6 April 2009 for businesses within the charge to income tax.

Example

Contract signed 1 April 2009 by a company:

The car has CO2 emissions of 166 g/km and a £6,000 annual lease charge. The disallowed portion would be £900 (15%) so £5,100 would be tax deductible.

Contract signed pre 1 April 2009 by a company:

The car has CO2 emissions of 175 g/km, a retail list price of £20,000 and an annual lease charge of £6,000 There would be a disallowance of £1,200 (calculated by applying a formula) so only £4,800 would be tax deductible.

Tax treatment of finance leased assets

These will generally be included in your accounts as fixed assets and depreciated over the useful business life but as these vehicles do not qualify as a purchase at the outset, the expenditure does not qualify for capital allowances unless classified as a long funded lease. Tax relief is generally obtained instead by allowing the accounting depreciation and any interest/finance charges in the profit and loss account - a little unusual but a simple solution! A disallowance still applies if the vehicle is an expensive car.

Private use of business vehicles

The private use of a business vehicle has tax implications for either the business or the individual depending on the type of business and vehicle.

Sole traders and partners

Where you are in business on your own account and use a vehicle owned by the business - irrespective of whether it is a car or van - the business will only be able to claim the business portion of any allowances. This applies to capital allowances, rental and lease costs, and other running costs such as servicing, fuel etc.

Providing vehicles to employees

Where vehicles are provided to employees irrespective of the form of business structure - sole trader/partnership/ company - a taxable benefit generally arises for private use. A tax charge will also apply where private fuel is provided for use in an employer provided vehicle. For the employer such taxable benefits attract 13.8% (12.8% before 6 April 2011) Class 1A National Insurance.

Vans
No charge applies where employees have the use of a van and a restricted private use condition is met. For details on what this means please contact us. Where the condition is not met there is a flat rate charge per annum of £3,000 for the unrestricted private use plus an additional £550 for private fuel.


So, you can now speak to your accountant from a position of knowledge and hone your questions accordingly! Alternatively, you could try to calculate yourself based on reasonable assumptions and then ask her to look over your workings!
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Re: Company cars : Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:18 am  
The above post amply illustrates why you should speak to your accountant!
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Re: Company cars : Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:25 am  
bren2k wrote:
The above post amply illustrates why you should speak to your accountant!


Or learn to read!
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1215
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RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Sat 5th Oct
SL
17:30
Wigan-Leigh
Sun 6th Oct
L1
15:00
Keighley-Hunslet
WSL2024
16:30
York V-St.HelensW
NRL
09:30
Melbourne-Penrith
Sun 27th Oct
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sat 2nd Nov
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Fri 4th Oct
SL 29 Hull KR10-8Warrington
Sun 29th Sep
L1 25 Rochdale26-46Hunslet
CH 28 Barrow24-26Widnes
CH 28 Bradford50-0Swinton
CH 28 Dewsbury28-8Sheffield
CH28 Wakefield72-6Doncaster
CH 28 Whitehaven23-20Halifax
CH 28 York16-6Featherstone
Sat 28th Sep
CH 28 Toulouse64-16Batley
SL 28 Warrington23-22St.Helens
NRL 30 Penrith26-6Cronulla
Fri 27th Sep
SL 28 Salford6-14Leigh
NRL 30 Melbourne48-18Sydney
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Hull KR 28 729 335 394 44
Wigan 27 721 336 385 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 28 580 404 176 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 26 1010 262 748 50
Toulouse 25 744 368 376 35
Bradford 26 678 387 291 34
York 27 655 469 186 30
Widnes 26 551 475 76 29
Featherstone 26 622 500 122 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Swinton 27 474 670 -196 18
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
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