Voluntary apartheid in the UK? : Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:42 pm  

Just as in the US we are seeing voluntary segregation: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... yside.html which bears out my personal observation of the changing nature of London and other places with significant non-white elements to the population. Is the country heading for a bleak, Balkan style future? What can be done to address this? Should anything be done? Will Enoch Powell be shown by history as correct?

Just as in the US we are seeing voluntary segregation: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... yside.html which bears out my personal observation of the changing nature of London and other places with significant non-white elements to the population. Is the country heading for a bleak, Balkan style future? What can be done to address this? Should anything be done? Will Enoch Powell be shown by history as correct?

Re: Voluntary apartheid in the UK? : Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:59 pm  

So let me summarise,

As generation upon generation gather more wealth they move out of the city centre to the suburbs where they percieve a better way of life ?

Yes, we knew that.

I knwo a bit about the city I live in but its the same story in every city thats been around for at least 200 years - I can take you to areas of this city that now seem to contain large populations of different coloured immigrants but which, 150 years ago, belonged to wealthy businessmen and the entrepreneurs who owned the city centre mills, they having moved out of the city centre to what they saw as the suburbes and their places being taken by different coloured immigrants who then worked in their mills.

Its the same process, its still happening, I'll give you two examples - Chapeltown in Leeds and Manningham in Bradford were once wealthy suburbs and are still full of huge merchants houses, all thats happened is a through-flux of the population as we all push further and further out.

Re: Voluntary apartheid in the UK? : Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:11 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

So let me summarise,

As generation upon generation gather more wealth they move out of the city centre to the suburbs where they percieve a better way of life ?

Yes, we knew that.

I knwo a bit about the city I live in but its the same story in every city thats been around for at least 200 years - I can take you to areas of this city that now seem to contain large populations of different coloured immigrants but which, 150 years ago, belonged to wealthy businessmen and the entrepreneurs who owned the city centre mills, they having moved out of the city centre to what they saw as the suburbes and their places being taken by different coloured immigrants who then worked in their mills.

Its the same process, its still happening, I'll give you two examples - Chapeltown in Leeds and Manningham in Bradford were once wealthy suburbs and are still full of huge merchants houses, all thats happened is a through-flux of the population as we all push further and further out.

No. The article was talking about people moving out of the outer suburbs.

Re: Voluntary apartheid in the UK? : Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:21 pm  

Dally wrote:

No. The article was talking about people moving out of the outer suburbs.

When the opening line says...

Britain is 'self-segregating' as white families flee urban areas for the countryside and outer suburbs.

...then I see that as being a continuation of the move of the wealthy to the edges of the cities in which they work, just as they always have done - Chapeltown and Manningham used to be in the countryside you know.

Re: Voluntary apartheid in the UK? : Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:18 pm  

Dally wrote:

Will Enoch Powell be shown by history as correct?

Enoch Powell thought there would be rivers foaming with blood as a consequence of mass immigration and that in 15 to 20 years (said in the 1960s) the white man would be under the whip hand of the black man.

I suspect Enoch Powell will not be right, what he should have forecast was "mass immigration will cause a lot of people to be casually racist and the Daily Mail to be up in arms".

However you do find a certain section of society always likes to forecast that Enoch Powell will be proved right, just like you can still go to meetings of Socialist Workers party and the likes where they forecast that whatever latest political crisis is proof that Karl Marx was right and the workers will rise up to overthrow their capitalist oppressors.

Re: Voluntary apartheid in the UK? : Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:24 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

Enoch Powell thought there would be rivers foaming with blood as a consequence of mass immigration and that in 15 to 20 years (said in the 1960s) the white man would be under the whip hand of the black man.

"under the whip hand" was rather an unfortunate remark to make with regard to racism and imperialism wasn't it ?

Re: Voluntary apartheid in the UK? : Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:31 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

"under the whip hand" was rather an unfortunate remark to make with regard to racism and imperialism wasn't it ?

You're cotton-picking correct.

Re: Voluntary apartheid in the UK? : Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:58 pm  

The Sunday Times included a piece on this too - 'white flight' is the name given to the phenomenon. The data was taken from the latest census but I remember watching a Channel 4 documentary a couple of years ago on the same phenomenon which has occurred in either Burnley or Blackburn (I always get those two towns mixed up). In whichever town it was, there has developed quite a clear demarkation line between (in the Lancashire town's case) the Asian community and the white British community, whereas in the London boroughs non-white British people have moved out of the centre either into neighbouring towns or the edges of the borough concerned. In London it would appear that the most notable reduction in white British people is in the borough of Redbridge where the number of white British people fell by 40,844 within a decade, which I think by anyone's standard is quite a fall.

Apparently the Americans label this phenomenon 'sundown segregation': people mix in shops, on public transport and in the workplace but if you followed people home you would see they are returning to areas which are heavily segregated.

I remember going to watch Saints play the Broncos in London at the end of 2011 and being surprised at how marked the changes were as we drove through different boroughs.

I think it's a shame myself. I'm not sure anyone benefits by this development.

Re: Voluntary apartheid in the UK? : Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:06 pm  

I think the pertinent question that no one wants to confront is why do people want to and where they can choose to segregate?

Re: Voluntary apartheid in the UK? : Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:16 pm  

And in other news, some areas of London are seeing an increase in young, middle-class people moving in, in order to enjoy the trendy lifestyle and the close proximity to all that the capital offers by way of entertainment etc.

And this is substantially changing areas that were once poor and/or working class into one where, not least, the cost of housing has risen dramatically.