Mr Cameron and The Sun : Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:58 pm  

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... s-axe.html Bit of a non-story, except perhaps the PMs close 'link' with The Sun?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... s-axe.html Bit of a non-story, except perhaps the PMs close 'link' with The Sun?

Re: Mr Cameron and The Sun : Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:04 pm  

Talking tough, but has he got the legislation in place to prevent EU/EEA nationals claiming benefits/NHS treatment? Will be interesting if EU countries reciprocate and stop benefits for Brits abroad.

Re: Mr Cameron and The Sun : Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:08 pm  

Chris28 wrote:

Talking tough, but has he got the legislation in place to prevent EU/EEA nationals claiming benefits/NHS treatment? Will be interesting if EU countries reciprocate and stop benefits for Brits abroad.

I don't think he's even saying those things. SeMaybe a pre-cursor for withdrawing benefits to born and bred Brits after 6 months?

Re: Mr Cameron and The Sun : Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:18 pm  

Dally wrote:

I don't think he's even saying those things. SeMaybe a pre-cursor for withdrawing benefits to born and bred Brits after 6 months?

Could be, but I also wonder if this is just political kite-flying after UKIP gave them a kick up the backside - do they for instance have numbers on how many EU or non-EU immigrants came to the UK in the last year or so and immediately claimed unemployment or housing benefits and then how long they remained here - one things for certain, someone arriving here from Bulgaria next year who is expecting to be able to live the life of riley on JSA is in for a nasty shock - £70 a week might get you a comfortable lifestyle in Bulgaria but it will barely buy you one meal a day here.

The NHS stuff is sensible, but I'm surprised to hear it raised as surely its been the norm for the last sixty years to check on entitlement for free treatment either by EU membership or via and insurance policy - hasn't it ? if so why the hell not ?

Given that the other headline this morning was the very critical report from a committee of MPs over the performance of the Border Agency then all of this could just be fodder for the Murdoch Group anyway, todays headlines to cover up another civil service shambles and an inability to control borders in a country that couldn't really have its borders any better defined.

Re: Mr Cameron and The Sun : Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:50 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

...The NHS stuff is sensible, but I'm surprised to hear it raised as surely its been the norm for the last sixty years to check on entitlement for free treatment either by EU membership or via and insurance policy - hasn't it ? if so why the hell not ?..

Hospitals, in general, don't ask where you're from and IMHO shouldn't either, their job is treating patients and admin should be kept to the minimum necessary.
GP's, on the other hand are supposed to check, but there are a small handful who will enrol people into their panel, get them an NHS number and refer them for treatment.
That's where the problem lies.

For A&E, I don't care if someone is from the EEA, USA or Jupiter, we should treat them first and ask questions later.

JerryChicken wrote:

...Given that the other headline this morning was the very critical report from a committee of MPs over the performance of the Border Agency then all of this could just be fodder for the Murdoch Group anyway, todays headlines to cover up another civil service shambles and an inability to control borders in a country that couldn't really have its borders any better defined.

Aye, that Murdoch swans in and out as he chooses, it's high time he was stopped.

Re: Mr Cameron and The Sun : Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:49 pm  

A&E treatment is free to anyone anyway (or at least it was) because its emergency related.

[Kosh]

Re: Mr Cameron and The Sun : Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:52 pm  

Anyone listen to the Today program this morning? An academic study has just concluded that EU immigrants pay in more than they take out.

Re: Mr Cameron and The Sun : Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:58 pm  

Chris28 wrote:

A&E treatment is free to anyone anyway (or at least it was) because its emergency related.

Great ... that's exactly as it ought to be, so as we are excluding A&E, it's all a question of referred patients then.

Re: Mr Cameron and The Sun : Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:52 pm  

You see, this is where I beg to differ and where I almost start agreeing with Cameron and his speech today which upon peeling back the layers is severely limited to what he wishes to achieve by means of current EU rules.

However,

I don't agree that A&E services should be free of charge to non UK citizens.

They aren't even free to UK citizens, just try walking in there and asking for emergency dental treatment and see if you get anything more than a packet of paracetamol and an instruction to ring a dentist, that you'll have to pay for - or more to the point see if you don't get an invoice should you ever be unfortunate enough to need an ambulance after a car wreck.

And if you are taken ill while abroad in the EU you will be entitled to reciprocal basic health care in your EU country but that will vary dramatically depending on which country you are in - try being ill in Menorca for instance and see if you get free treatment, heres a clue, don't try it, just take my word for it, you'll be charged a consultation fee which you then get told to claim back from your insurance.

Whilst I wouldn't suggest anything as vulgar as asking the foreigner under the bus if he has any insurance papers on him, there is plenty of opportunity at every A&E admission to ask the relevant questions, they manage it in all other EU countries and in the USA without it getting in the way of emergency treatment.

Re: Mr Cameron and The Sun : Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:59 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

You see, this is where I beg to differ and where I almost start agreeing with Cameron and his speech today which upon peeling back the layers is severely limited to what he wishes to achieve by means of current EU rules.

However,

I don't agree that A&E services should be free of charge to non UK citizens.

They aren't even free to UK citizens, just try walking in there and asking for emergency dental treatment and see if you get anything more than a packet of paracetamol and an instruction to ring a dentist, that you'll have to pay for - or more to the point see if you don't get an invoice should you ever be unfortunate enough to need an ambulance after a car wreck.

And if you are taken ill while abroad in the EU you will be entitled to reciprocal basic health care in your EU country but that will vary dramatically depending on which country you are in - try being ill in Menorca for instance and see if you get free treatment, heres a clue, don't try it, just take my word for it, you'll be charged a consultation fee which you then get told to claim back from your insurance.

Whilst I wouldn't suggest anything as vulgar as asking the foreigner under the bus if he has any insurance papers on him, there is plenty of opportunity at every A&E admission to ask the relevant questions, they manage it in all other EU countries and in the USA without it getting in the way of emergency treatment.

The reciprocal arrangements with EEA countries mean you you get health care on the same terms as their citizens (which is not usually free). As you say, need to pay up front and hope to get back from your travel insurers. In some countries, eg Germany there is more than one type of hospital - so if you go / get taken to a private one rather than a state one the bills will be extremely expensive.

So, I guess to comply with EU law if Cameron is going to start charging EU citizens for NHS care he'll need to charge UK citizens the same.