The rise of UKIP : Fri May 03, 2013 12:37 pm  

Seems UKIP have done very well in the local elections. Interesting times ahead.

Not sure how all this will play out. Some initial thoughts:

- a traditional "protest" vote
- perhaps, but more I think two fingers to the whole, inept political establishment
- I would bet longer-term it signals the complete demise of the LibDems
- a signal that the public are angry and are shifting to the right. Possibly the end of Cameron, Osborne and the ridiculous (in my opinion) Shapps?
- a tribute to Farage's personality and "real" personal manner
- as Farage is essentially a traditional, right-wing Tory could there be a possibility of a major shift to the right by the Tories and them doing a deal to take him in before the general election? If so, Labour is in big trouble.
- I guess Farage would want UKIP to go it alone though at the next general election to see how UKIP fares

Re: The rise of UKIP : Fri May 03, 2013 12:53 pm  

Farage is the sort of twok who 'thinks' that people should be able to do what they like. Except when it comes to those nasty gays getting married, of course.

The rise of UKIP is, in part, a protest vote, but it also illustrates how a large number of people don't have very credible thinking skills (my father is just such a one), and that there is a sizeable percentage of the media that is boosting UKIP/Farage on the basis of its own agenda.

Re: The rise of UKIP : Fri May 03, 2013 12:56 pm  

Dally wrote:

Seems UKIP have done very well in the local elections. Interesting times ahead.

Not sure how all this will play out. Some initial thoughts:

- a traditional "protest" vote
- perhaps, but more I think two fingers to the whole, inept political establishment
- I would bet longer-term it signals the complete demise of the LibDems
- a signal that the public are angry and are shifting to the right. Possibly the end of Cameron, Osborne and the ridiculous (in my opinion) Shapps?
- a tribute to Farage's personality and "real" personal manner
- as Farage is essentially a traditional, right-wing Tory could there be a possibility of a major shift to the right by the Tories and them doing a deal to take him in before the general election? If so, Labour is in big trouble.
- I guess Farage would want UKIP to go it alone though at the next general election to see how UKIP fares

I believe we live in a pretty democratic country which prides itself on it's tolerance and justice. We only have to look at the Qatada situation and we can see how just and fair our country is, even if some people don't like it. There have been numerous debates about same sex marriage, and again some people are not in favour, but the fact that minority groups are tolerated and have the same rights is testament to our country.

To be quite honest, the thought of UKIP doing well in a general election scares me. If they had a sizable presence in the Houses of Parliament they may not be so right-wing, it may just be to shock and create press for themselves, but I would hate for them to make policies about equal rights on current form.

I hope they are just attracting a protest vote, previously reserved for the Lib Dems.

[John_D]

Re: The rise of UKIP : Fri May 03, 2013 12:58 pm  

H'Angus the Monkey has had more power than Farage has ever had, arguably ever will, and I don't remember H'Angus getting the blanket, fawning media coverage Farage is enjoying.

Maybe it's because H'Angus failed to follow through on his 'free bananas for schoolkids' policy. The danger of promising something it turns out to be impossible to deliver. A salutary note for Farage, perhaps.

Re: The rise of UKIP : Fri May 03, 2013 1:08 pm  

Mintball wrote:

it also illustrates how a large number of people don't have very credible thinking skills.

Deary me! You should elope with El Barb.

Re: The rise of UKIP : Fri May 03, 2013 1:22 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Farage is the sort of twok who 'thinks' that people should be able to do what they like. Except when it comes to those nasty gays getting married, of course.

The rise of UKIP is, in part, a protest vote, but it also illustrates how a large number of people don't have very credible thinking skills (my father is just such a one), and that there is a sizeable percentage of the media that is boosting UKIP/Farage on the basis of its own agenda.

Although I agree largely I still say that UKIP are causing Dave C major problems.
He is now in a tricky situation. He has clearly lost the a fair chunk of the right and possibly centre-right of the Tory vote.
Now does he stay as he is or does he try and get a referendum pushed through in this parliament. It's looking obvious that the UKIP point that Cameron hasn't delivered this time so why would he go through with it in the next parliament is starting to hit home.
I can see a fair few Tory MP's being very twitchy, The dirty trick campaign for Clark and his mob didn't work and it's possible all they did was make a bad situation worse as calling your own voters closet racists was never a great idea.

You have to give Farage credit though as he is playing the 'game' well in fact on BBC news today it was stated that he was just going round and around doing press interviews (Every local BBC station and lets be honest local radio would give their right arm for an interview today) when it's normal for a leader to be away enjoying it.

Re: The rise of UKIP : Fri May 03, 2013 1:26 pm  

Dally wrote:

Deary me! You should elope with El Barb.

A specific example of UKIP-voter 'thinking':

I was on the phone with my parents the other day and my father – not for the first time – announced that he was voting UKIP out of disgust at the Eton boys currently running the country.

I pointed out that UKIP leader Nigel Farage is another former public schoolboy, but that didn’t seem to carry quite the same weight.

“At least he’d get us out of Europe,” huffed my father.

I pointed out that many people who are opposed to the EU are so because they want to reduce the rights of workers to below those of EU levels. My father – from very humble working-class stock himself – purports to have sympathy on such matters, so it seemed a coherent point to make, and I thought that it would, at the very least, make him pause.

He did pause.

And then: “We didn’t win the war to be ruled over by the Germans!” he exploded.

Re: The rise of UKIP : Fri May 03, 2013 1:28 pm  

Mintball wrote:

A specific example of UKIP-voter 'thinking':

I was on the phone with my parents the other day and my father – not for the first time – announced that he was voting UKIP out of disgust at the Eton boys currently running the country.

I pointed out that UKIP leader Nigel Farage is another former public schoolboy, but that didn’t seem to carry quite the same weight.

“At least he’d get us out of Europe,” huffed my father.

I pointed out that many people who are opposed to the EU are so because they want to reduce the rights of workers to below those of EU levels. My father – from very humble working-class stock himself – purports to have sympathy on such matters, so it seemed a coherent point to make, and I thought that it would, at the very least, make him pause.

He did pause.

And then: “We didn’t win the war to be ruled over by the Germans!” he exploded.

Sounds like an average, decent Englishman.

Re: The rise of UKIP : Fri May 03, 2013 1:30 pm  

Anakin Skywalker wrote:

Although I agree largely I still say that UKIP are causing Dave C major problems.
He is now in a tricky situation. He has clearly lost the a fair chunk of the right and possibly centre-right of the Tory vote.
Now does he stay as he is or does he try and get a referendum pushed through in this parliament. It's looking obvious that the UKIP point that Cameron hasn't delivered this time so why would he go through with it in the next parliament is starting to hit home.
I can see a fair few Tory MP's being very twitchy, The dirty trick campaign for Clark and his mob didn't work and it's possible all they did was make a bad situation worse as calling your own voters closet racists was never a great idea.

I agree there'll be twitchiness and they've created for themselves. But part of that has been because of the lies that their (former) best mates in the media have taken to spreading. I suspect there will be less of a protest vote come 2015.

Anakin Skywalker wrote:

You have to give Farage credit though as he is playing the 'game' well in fact on BBC news today it was stated that he was just going round and around doing press interviews (Every local BBC station and lets be honest local radio would give their right arm for an interview today) when it's normal for a leader to be away enjoying it.

There's talk now of him getting to share a debate platform with the leaders of the main parties in the general election: yet his party has not a single MP, while other parties do and won't be expected to have some of the media demanding they be on the telly in such a fashion.

Re: The rise of UKIP : Fri May 03, 2013 1:47 pm  

the rise of UKIP is explained by this very forum, too many left wing opinionists in a position of power, preventing the middle ground having a say, and beating them down when they do.

Farage is a clown, but at least he isn't a bully.