Dismantling of the justice system : Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:37 pm  

Consultation closes today (though doubtless it's a sham, and decisions have as per already been made) on the shameful plans to continue driving a coach and horses through ordinary people's access to justice. Foremost amongst the plans is that no longer will a person arrested be able to call his or her own solicitor, instead they will get whatever muppet is covering those cells that day. Unless they pay, of course. As ever, the rich can get the lawyer they want. Added to a plan to impose yet more swingeing cuts to criminal legal aid across the board, in addition to 30% in the past 5 years, and a stated desire to close down 75% of the solicitors offices doing criminal law across the country, this is a recipe for miscarriages of justice. In future, you will get effectively Tesco criminal law, like value beans, and if you want justice but can't pay, well, tough. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22762984 The most evil government in UK history? Well, a good candidate.

Consultation closes today (though doubtless it's a sham, and decisions have as per already been made) on the shameful plans to continue driving a coach and horses through ordinary people's access to justice. Foremost amongst the plans is that no longer will a person arrested be able to call his or her own solicitor, instead they will get whatever muppet is covering those cells that day. Unless they pay, of course. As ever, the rich can get the lawyer they want. Added to a plan to impose yet more swingeing cuts to criminal legal aid across the board, in addition to 30% in the past 5 years, and a stated desire to close down 75% of the solicitors offices doing criminal law across the country, this is a recipe for miscarriages of justice. In future, you will get effectively Tesco criminal law, like value beans, and if you want justice but can't pay, well, tough. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22762984 The most evil government in UK history? Well, a good candidate.

[Kosh]

Re: Dismantling of the justice system : Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:54 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

The most evil government in UK history? Well, a good candidate.

Easily the most evil in living memory.

Re: Dismantling of the justice system : Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:56 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote: Consultation closes today (though doubtless it's a sham, and decisions have as per already been made) on the shameful plans to continue driving a coach and horses through ordinary people's access to justice. Foremost amongst the plans is that no longer will a person arrested be able to call his or her own solicitor, instead they will get whatever muppet is covering those cells that day. Unless they pay, of course. As ever, the rich can get the lawyer they want. Added to a plan to impose yet more swingeing cuts to criminal legal aid across the board, in addition to 30% in the past 5 years, and a stated desire to close down 75% of the solicitors offices doing criminal law across the country, this is a recipe for miscarriages of justice. In future, you will get effectively Tesco criminal law, like value beans, and if you want justice but can't pay, well, tough. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22762984 The most evil government in UK history? Well, a good candidate. Yes. I mentioned this on one of the other threads a week or two ago. Not only the criminal justice system but also access to legal aid generally is much restricted. Also single firm's get legal aid franchises in certain disciplines covering great areas of the country. That makes it hard for them to take on all cases as they can be too busy but not just that - if your business is reliant on a franchise it doesn't take a genius to work out that you may not get a renewal if you do a good job in representing people against government bodies!

Ferocious Aardvark wrote: Consultation closes today (though doubtless it's a sham, and decisions have as per already been made) on the shameful plans to continue driving a coach and horses through ordinary people's access to justice. Foremost amongst the plans is that no longer will a person arrested be able to call his or her own solicitor, instead they will get whatever muppet is covering those cells that day. Unless they pay, of course. As ever, the rich can get the lawyer they want. Added to a plan to impose yet more swingeing cuts to criminal legal aid across the board, in addition to 30% in the past 5 years, and a stated desire to close down 75% of the solicitors offices doing criminal law across the country, this is a recipe for miscarriages of justice. In future, you will get effectively Tesco criminal law, like value beans, and if you want justice but can't pay, well, tough. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22762984 The most evil government in UK history? Well, a good candidate. Yes. I mentioned this on one of the other threads a week or two ago. Not only the criminal justice system but also access to legal aid generally is much restricted. Also single firm's get legal aid franchises in certain disciplines covering great areas of the country. That makes it hard for them to take on all cases as they can be too busy but not just that - if your business is reliant on a franchise it doesn't take a genius to work out that you may not get a renewal if you do a good job in representing people against government bodies!

[Durham Giant]

Re: Dismantling of the justice system : Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:45 pm  

I would argue that the effect on Civil Law is far more serious than on criminal law.

From now on couples who separate will not be eligible for legal aid in disputes about contact and residency of their children.
There are some exceptions ie in cases of Domestic violence. So if you split up and your ex wont let you see your kids you will not get legal aid. If you take it to court and your ex alleges domestic violence they will get legal aid and a solicitor but you will not.

What this will mean is that judges will have to deal with these issues themselves. In reality they will refer most of them to either Cafcass or Local Authorities to report to court. Neither of these agencies can manage any increase in work when they are all overworked as it is. They will then be forced to juggle their private law work with their child protection duties with the net result children are going to be left in a more vulnerable situation. The net result is that children are going to be left in realy vulnerable situations.

There will be a huge number of kids who will now end up losing contact with their parents following divorce with no real legal redress unless you become litigant in person ( lippy) or pay for your own legal aid.
Allied to this there is now no legal aid to deal with divorce ancilliary matters such as finances, pensions etc. This will all now be done by the parties themselves and a judge will oversee it. The fact that judges will not be interested in dealing with lippys who will be turning up at court with hundreds of documents about their finances is irrelevant.

Re: Dismantling of the justice system : Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:23 pm  

Anyone with a social conscience SHOULD at least take a couple of seconds to a) sign the petition against this madness and b) spread the link to the petition as widely as you can Save UK Justice: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/48628

Anyone with a social conscience SHOULD at least take a couple of seconds to a) sign the petition against this madness and b) spread the link to the petition as widely as you can Save UK Justice: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/48628

Re: Dismantling of the justice system : Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:03 pm  

Some may amazed to find out just how badly paid criminal law is.

A junior solicitor in the shires is probably looking at £18-£30K. And for this money they will be out at all hours of the day and night, weekends, etc.. dealing with people at police stations.

Having spent several years studying followed by a 2 year apprenticeship, the salary is bugger all. Which is why no-one wants to do it and the cool kids opt for more lucrative areas of practice.

Re: Dismantling of the justice system : Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:04 pm  

The Video Ref wrote:

Some may amazed to find out just how badly paid criminal law is.

A junior solicitor in the shires is probably looking at £18-£30K. And for this money they will be out at all hours of the day and night, weekends, etc.. dealing with people at police stations.

Having spent several years studying followed by a 2 year apprenticeship, the salary is bugger all. Which is why no-one wants to do it and the cool kids opt for more lucrative areas of practice.

If this goes ahead they will be out of a job. Senior criminal lawyers are applying to become judges before their income goes. Most local firms with a significant criminal practice will go bust.

Re: Dismantling of the justice system : Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:05 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote: Anyone with a social conscience SHOULD at least take a couple of seconds to a) sign the petition against this madness and b) spread the link to the petition as widely as you can Save UK Justice: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/48628 Done it.

Ferocious Aardvark wrote: Anyone with a social conscience SHOULD at least take a couple of seconds to a) sign the petition against this madness and b) spread the link to the petition as widely as you can Save UK Justice: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/48628 Done it.

Re: Dismantling of the justice system : Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:11 pm  

The system is already seeing lots of defendants self representing. This will increase if legal aid is cut and stricter means testing is implemented.

Cases take 3 times as long as they stand there arguing irrelevant points, whilst judges and prosecuting lawyers bend over backwards to try and make the whole thing work (often coming very close to compromising their independence in the process).

People who have good defences are plading guilty just to get it over and done with. The obviously guilty run hopeless defences, because they don't understand the law or points the prosecution has to prove.

The whole thing is an absolute cluster. And will end up costing more in the long-term with extra court time required and endless appeals.

Re: Dismantling of the justice system : Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:49 pm  

Durham Giant wrote:

I would argue that the effect on Civil Law is far more serious than on criminal law.

From now on couples who separate will not be eligible for legal aid in disputes about contact and residency of their children.
There are some exceptions ie in cases of Domestic violence. So if you split up and your ex wont let you see your kids you will not get legal aid. If you take it to court and your ex alleges domestic violence they will get legal aid and a solicitor but you will not.

What this will mean is that judges will have to deal with these issues themselves. In reality they will refer most of them to either Cafcass or Local Authorities to report to court. Neither of these agencies can manage any increase in work when they are all overworked as it is. They will then be forced to juggle their private law work with their child protection duties with the net result children are going to be left in a more vulnerable situation. The net result is that children are going to be left in realy vulnerable situations.

There will be a huge number of kids who will now end up losing contact with their parents following divorce with no real legal redress unless you become litigant in person ( lippy) or pay for your own legal aid.
Allied to this there is now no legal aid to deal with divorce ancilliary matters such as finances, pensions etc. This will all now be done by the parties themselves and a judge will oversee it. The fact that judges will not be interested in dealing with lippys who will be turning up at court with hundreds of documents about their finances is irrelevant.

As important as those issues undoubtedly are, I wouldn't say they were 'far more serious' than an innocent person having to spend time in prison for want of an adequate defence lawyer.