MoD and their dogs... : Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:41 pm  

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09/19/military-dogs-dead-killed-animal-charities_n_3953021.html?utm_hp_ref=uk&just_reloaded=1 I've been waiting for years for this story to break and no doubt so have the Ministry of Defence ! Its no secret within the Military Police that their dogs are disposable pieces of kit, especially the ones who are posted to bases abroad as basically they don't get a return flight ticket, when they are past a certain age then its the needle for them, not sure what age the MP class as too old but most regular civilian police dogs are retired at around seven years although most of those are given to their handler after that and live out their life as pets. The main difference with MoD dogs is that they have a guarding role rather than varied roles that the civilian police dogs have, they tend to be donated dogs rather than bred and so can be difficult cases, and importantly they are "pool" dogs as the handlers move around shifts and locations, its not unusual for a handler to not get the same dog twice in a weeks worth of shifts. One of my brother-in-laws was a dog handler in the RAF MP and was attacked twice by two base dogs while he was feeding them and that was after they had been through all of their training ! As I say, they are usually "difficult" dogs handed in by members of the public - by comparison West Yorks Police don't accept donated dogs and buy pups from breeders (or breed their own), they don't want aggressive dogs, just obedient ones. This is why they are labelled as not suitable for adoption, that and the fact that repatriation is more expensive than euthanasia, sad but true.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09/19/military-dogs-dead-killed-animal-charities_n_3953021.html?utm_hp_ref=uk&just_reloaded=1 I've been waiting for years for this story to break and no doubt so have the Ministry of Defence ! Its no secret within the Military Police that their dogs are disposable pieces of kit, especially the ones who are posted to bases abroad as basically they don't get a return flight ticket, when they are past a certain age then its the needle for them, not sure what age the MP class as too old but most regular civilian police dogs are retired at around seven years although most of those are given to their handler after that and live out their life as pets. The main difference with MoD dogs is that they have a guarding role rather than varied roles that the civilian police dogs have, they tend to be donated dogs rather than bred and so can be difficult cases, and importantly they are "pool" dogs as the handlers move around shifts and locations, its not unusual for a handler to not get the same dog twice in a weeks worth of shifts. One of my brother-in-laws was a dog handler in the RAF MP and was attacked twice by two base dogs while he was feeding them and that was after they had been through all of their training ! As I say, they are usually "difficult" dogs handed in by members of the public - by comparison West Yorks Police don't accept donated dogs and buy pups from breeders (or breed their own), they don't want aggressive dogs, just obedient ones. This is why they are labelled as not suitable for adoption, that and the fact that repatriation is more expensive than euthanasia, sad but true.

Re: MoD and their dogs... : Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:30 pm  

Given that there is no reasonable alternative for such a dog, humane killing seems as good a solution as there is. I don't really get the fuss about it. It's not as if they are being deprived of an alternative happy old age, and it's not as if they suffer in any way. Harsh but fair, IMHO.

Re: MoD and their dogs... : Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:30 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Given that there is no reasonable alternative for such a dog, humane killing seems as good a solution as there is. I don't really get the fuss about it. It's not as if they are being deprived of an alternative happy old age, and it's not as if they suffer in any way. Harsh but fair, IMHO.

Most of the handlers feel the same way to be honest, they don't get the attachment to a dog that a civilian police dog handler will get when he/she gets the puppy at ten weeks, raises it with his family for two years, gets it through its prelim assessment, gets it through all of its training and then works with it every day for the next five or six years, try and take those dogs away from their handlers and you'll have a fight on your hands.

Re: MoD and their dogs... : Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:19 pm  

Mixed feelings about this one. If these dogs get into the wrong hands and their new owners decide to follow the "Ceaser" way and do the likes of alpha rolls and dominance over these dogs then putting them to sleep would be the safer option. If they get re-homed with someone who understands dogs and is willing to continue to work with them, and by that I don't mean guarding, then these dogs can be the most loyal, trustworthy, happy pets for a long time.

The thing that annoys me is that thousands of "retired" greyhounds are put to sleep every year once they stop being a cash cow and no-one bats an eye.

Re: MoD and their dogs... : Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:02 pm  

Hull White Star wrote:

...
The thing that annoys me is that thousands of "retired" greyhounds are put to sleep every year once they stop being a cash cow and no-one bats an eye.

A greyhound as a "cash cow"? You are kidding, right? Who ever made a penny out of owning a greyhound? You'd be better off investing in UK bank shares.

On your general point, the dogs would not have ever existed in the first place, had greyhound racing not existed. They were bred solely for that purpose. They have had a decent life, as even racing's opponents would acknowledge that the only dog with a chance of winning is a well looked after, well fed, healthy and fully fit dog.

If there were enough people with sufficient concern for retired greyhounds to rehome them all then it would happen but there isn't.

The fact is that they are a commodity, bred and kept for a specific purpose, and their natural lifespan is often cut short as a result. In this way they are no different from, say, cattle bred for beef, lambs bred for lamb, chickens bred for chicken, pigs bred for pork, etc. And they meet a much less unpleasant end, and certainly have a life, which millions of pigs, chickens etc really don't.

Re: MoD and their dogs... : Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:20 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote: A greyhound as a "cash cow"? You are kidding, right? Who ever made a penny out of owning a greyhound? You'd be better off investing in UK bank shares. On your general point, the dogs would not have ever existed in the first place, had greyhound racing not existed. They were bred solely for that purpose. They have had a decent life, as even racing's opponents would acknowledge that the only dog with a chance of winning is a well looked after, well fed, healthy and fully fit dog. If there were enough people with sufficient concern for retired greyhounds to rehome them all then it would happen but there isn't. The fact is that they are a commodity, bred and kept for a specific purpose, and their natural lifespan is often cut short as a result. In this way they are no different from, say, cattle bred for beef, lambs bred for lamb, chickens bred for chicken, pigs bred for pork, etc. And they meet a much less unpleasant end, and certainly have a life, which millions of pigs, chickens etc really don't. You miss my point, I'm not anti greyhound racing at all, infact I quite enjoy watching them, what I can't abide is once they've come to their "retirement age" of around 3 years old and can no longer run fast, a lot (noticed I said a lot and not all) of racing owners would rather shoot their greyhounds than re-home them to the likes of the Retired Greyhound Trust and the like, its been well documented in the press. And there is enough people with sufficient concern, thats why there is a waiting list for a retired greyhound from the trust: http://www.retiredgreyhounds.co.uk/About-the-RGT/ Q3 How many greyhounds has the charity rehomed? Each year approximately 8,000 greyhounds retire from racing. In 2002, the Trust found 2,030 homes for greyhounds. This figure has increased progressively and the Trust now finds over 4,000 homes for greyhounds a year (4,247 in 2010). In 2012 the Trust was proud to rehome its 60,000th greyhound.

Ferocious Aardvark wrote: A greyhound as a "cash cow"? You are kidding, right? Who ever made a penny out of owning a greyhound? You'd be better off investing in UK bank shares. On your general point, the dogs would not have ever existed in the first place, had greyhound racing not existed. They were bred solely for that purpose. They have had a decent life, as even racing's opponents would acknowledge that the only dog with a chance of winning is a well looked after, well fed, healthy and fully fit dog. If there were enough people with sufficient concern for retired greyhounds to rehome them all then it would happen but there isn't. The fact is that they are a commodity, bred and kept for a specific purpose, and their natural lifespan is often cut short as a result. In this way they are no different from, say, cattle bred for beef, lambs bred for lamb, chickens bred for chicken, pigs bred for pork, etc. And they meet a much less unpleasant end, and certainly have a life, which millions of pigs, chickens etc really don't. You miss my point, I'm not anti greyhound racing at all, infact I quite enjoy watching them, what I can't abide is once they've come to their "retirement age" of around 3 years old and can no longer run fast, a lot (noticed I said a lot and not all) of racing owners would rather shoot their greyhounds than re-home them to the likes of the Retired Greyhound Trust and the like, its been well documented in the press. And there is enough people with sufficient concern, thats why there is a waiting list for a retired greyhound from the trust: http://www.retiredgreyhounds.co.uk/About-the-RGT/ Q3 How many greyhounds has the charity rehomed? Each year approximately 8,000 greyhounds retire from racing. In 2002, the Trust found 2,030 homes for greyhounds. This figure has increased progressively and the Trust now finds over 4,000 homes for greyhounds a year (4,247 in 2010). In 2012 the Trust was proud to rehome its 60,000th greyhound.

Re: MoD and their dogs... : Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:47 pm  

And the thing is, greyhounds often make very good family dogs as surprisingly they are quite lazy dogs - they probably won't be house trained if you get an ex-racer and you'll always have to muzzle it when taking it for walks and if you want to let it run off the lead, there is a woman with an ex-racer who walks it in the park at the same time as I take my dog and it might have retired but christ it can still run fast

Re: MoD and their dogs... : Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:06 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

And the thing is, greyhounds often make very good family dogs as surprisingly they are quite lazy dogs - they probably won't be house trained if you get an ex-racer and you'll always have to muzzle it when taking it for walks and if you want to let it run off the lead, there is a woman with an ex-racer who walks it in the park at the same time as I take my dog and it might have retired but christ it can still run fast

......and its also wise not to have small furries if you own a greyhound

Re: MoD and their dogs... : Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:13 pm  

JerryChicken wrote: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09/19/military-dogs-dead-killed-animal-charities_n_3953021.html?utm_hp_ref=uk&just_reloaded=1 Its no secret within the Military Police that their dogs are disposable pieces of kit, especially the ones who are posted to bases abroad At the risk of being pedantic: The RMP dog handler role was discontinued years ago. The RAF police still have dogs, but far fewer than they used to. If you see anyone with a guard dog on a military base in the UK chances are they are MoD Police (who are a civilian constabulary), or Military Provost Guard Service, basically people who are ex military and fancied extending their service by coming back as guards in combats. Most of the dogs you see abroad and in Afghan are under the control of Military Working Dogs, who are part of the Royal Army Veterinary Corps. The Germany Guard Service also have a small dog section. But it literally is one man and his van.

JerryChicken wrote: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09/19/military-dogs-dead-killed-animal-charities_n_3953021.html?utm_hp_ref=uk&just_reloaded=1 Its no secret within the Military Police that their dogs are disposable pieces of kit, especially the ones who are posted to bases abroad At the risk of being pedantic: The RMP dog handler role was discontinued years ago. The RAF police still have dogs, but far fewer than they used to. If you see anyone with a guard dog on a military base in the UK chances are they are MoD Police (who are a civilian constabulary), or Military Provost Guard Service, basically people who are ex military and fancied extending their service by coming back as guards in combats. Most of the dogs you see abroad and in Afghan are under the control of Military Working Dogs, who are part of the Royal Army Veterinary Corps. The Germany Guard Service also have a small dog section. But it literally is one man and his van.

Re: MoD and their dogs... : Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:53 am  

The Video Ref wrote:

At the risk of being pedantic:

The RMP dog handler role was discontinued years ago. The RAF police still have dogs, but far fewer than they used to.

If you see anyone with a guard dog on a military base in the UK chances are they are MoD Police (who are a civilian constabulary), or Military Provost Guard Service, basically people who are ex military and fancied extending their service by coming back as guards in combats.

Most of the dogs you see abroad and in Afghan are under the control of Military Working Dogs, who are part of the Royal Army Veterinary Corps. The Germany Guard Service also have a small dog section. But it literally is one man and his van.

Thank you fro the correction, my bro-in-law was in the RMP as a dog handler until (approx) eight years ago mainly on bases in Germany, Lincolnshire and a couple of sessions in The Falklands and for the last year of his service out of the dog section in some sort of rapid response unit that he still won't talk about

He is now gainfully employed as a dog handler in the Met Police.

The newspaper story itself still stands though, most of the dogs under MoD control are not repatriated due to cost and /or unsuitability for rehoming, its why from time to time you see newspaper stories of retired service personnel having paid from their own pockets to repatriate favourite dogs.