Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for school? : Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:23 pm  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-257 ... ok_bbcnews There is an idea, which doesn't look like being adopted to be fair, that those who earn a combined income of more than £80,000 should have to pay if their children go to the most popular state schools. The idea being that £80,000 is the starting point, increasing the more you earn. First of all I would volunteer that I wouldn't be in the bracket to make the extra payments should they be implemented. My personal thoughts is that its double taxation (as we pay council tax) on those who have worked themselves up the ladder. That while I agree those earning these sorts of levels shouldn't receive benefits (generally speaking), that we should all be universally entitled to access to education for our children, healthcare etc without penalty beyond paying your fair share of taxes. What do people think of this idea?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-257 ... ok_bbcnews There is an idea, which doesn't look like being adopted to be fair, that those who earn a combined income of more than £80,000 should have to pay if their children go to the most popular state schools. The idea being that £80,000 is the starting point, increasing the more you earn. First of all I would volunteer that I wouldn't be in the bracket to make the extra payments should they be implemented. My personal thoughts is that its double taxation (as we pay council tax) on those who have worked themselves up the ladder. That while I agree those earning these sorts of levels shouldn't receive benefits (generally speaking), that we should all be universally entitled to access to education for our children, healthcare etc without penalty beyond paying your fair share of taxes. What do people think of this idea?

[TimperleySaint]

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:33 pm  

I've never liked the whole thing of if you earn more you should pay more back or pay for stuff like this just because they can afford it!

As you say, it's a double taxation and they are already paying higher tax on their income than anyone else to begin with - so why should they?

Everyone has the same opportunity in school to learn and develop, go on to college and University and end up earning this kind of salary - just a case of people wanting to work for it and not just bum around!

[DaveO]

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:39 pm  

This is what it is all about:

Dr Seldon added the UK would be "in debt for many years to come" and that state schooling was "the last great bastion holding out against the principle of payment".

It's just another way of socialising the nations debt with the middle classes picking up the tab. In particular those who can't hide their income will be paying in full whereas the those who can will avoid this as they do income tax.

I don't disagree with his view that grammar schools are stuffed full of middle class kids and do nothing to aid social mobility but just who does he think his school is stuffed with and how does his school aid social mobility?

If he thinks money is the answer to improving standards in state schools which he seems to think is the case as he argues the fees would be distributed throughout the state sector, there is a very simple way to ensure more many is available - ensure people and companies are taxed properly via a progressive taxation system.

That way the well off will be paying more towards the education budget and there would be no need to set up a ton of bureaucracy to administer the system he envisages.

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:51 pm  

I thought people paying tax (central and local) "paid" for schools anyway?

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:10 pm  

The idea is absurd. If people had to pay £20,000 for a state educatiion (where the state spends a fraction of that on their child) they'd opt for private education - which would suit his ilk as lots of lowergrade private schools are struggling. Furthermore, it would be more divisive - which suits the sicker right-wing elements and would allow state education funding to be slashed without risking a chattering class rebellion. Better I think for all concerned itf charitable reliefs are taken away from private schools so that the free-market loving parents and Tories can pay more for their children's education.

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:37 pm  

All would be fine if the money that the wealthy Terry-and-June class parents handed over for Tarquins state education would be left in the particular school's coffers for their spending on further improving, which then wouldn't benefit genral education standards at all, hang on, I've not thought this through and neither has the good Dr.

So its all bollax.

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:01 pm  

I find the best way is to help the less well off rather than get fixated about 'rich' people.
If the system worked as it ought and tax avoidance abuse was minimised, then better off folk would already be contributing more.
That's even on a flat rate of tax, nevermind an additional higher tax band rate.

Many of these people employ other people, they spend more money. What is the problem?

And I'm not one of them by the way.
OK, I have my mansion in Yorkshire, but times is hard.
lol

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:21 pm  

No-one is going to pay £20K a year to send their kids to the local state school.

They will pack them off to Repton or Uppingham instead.

Some sensible discussion so far... but probably not long until this thread descends into a haves vs have-nots argument, with the have-nots using it as another opportunity to be part of the 'us' in the never-ending war against 'them'.

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:49 pm  

I'll show my hand now then.

I benefited from a state grammar school education 1968-73 so it would be slightly hypocritical of me to suggest that the notion of "middle class education" did not or does not exist.

I left with a boatload of poor grade GCE O levels and walked into an office job, my brother went to a Secondary school, failed most of his CSE exams but left with enough to get himself an apprenticeship and ended up as a time-served joiner, within a couple of years he was earning more than me, within fifteen years we were both working together in our own company.

The point is that its not necessarily the education that you receive, although a good grounding in everything is essential, but what happens when you go out into the world of work that matters, and the problem today is that everything is measured and graded and if you don't fit that grade then you don't even get a look-in the door.

I walked into the first job I was interviewed for because the bloke who interviewed me thought I could do the job and thought I would fit into his team, I was never asked to show any qualifications, simply to turn up on Monday in a suit to start my career as a quantity surveyor - try doing that today, I have a lot of sympathy for kids who don't cope with an academic environment and never get the chance to prove themselves in a job where money and an interest in what you're doing (possibly for the first time in your life) is the prime motivator.

[DaveO]

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:52 pm  

The Video Ref wrote:

Some sensible discussion so far... but probably not long until this thread descends into a haves vs have-nots argument, with the have-nots using it as another opportunity to be part of the 'us' in the never-ending war against 'them'.

Since all sides of the great class divide or whatever you want to call it see this as a stupid idea I think you might be wrong there.