IS and the Western response : Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:38 pm  

What is this delay all about? Politicians wringing hands while IS lunatics massacre thousands of people.

If you don't think we should get involved, remember IS have one aim: to re-establish the Caliphate and convert or kill every human being they come across. For those who don't know, at its peak the Caliphate stretched across the entire Middle East, North Africa, Spain and Portugal. And they don't want to stop there, they want to fly the black flag over Europe and the USA. They think nothing of killing their own, they'll think even less of attacking the West.

More importantly, right now these complete lunatics are wiping out entire communities, killing or selling girls for slavery and murdering anyone refusing to convert to their horrific brand of Islam. I've seen pictures of a Christian girl tortured and tied to a bed, a cross inserted in her mouth and hammered out through the back of her head. They buried captured Yazidi alive, women and children included. Just picture that. And that's on top of the 'usual' mass killings of opposition troops, militants and civilians, and generally anyone they feel like killing. I've seen a picture of an infant girl with several AK-47 barrels pointed at her head. Every one of these disgusting human beings should be wiped out, now, no questions asked. Even Al-Qaeda have washed their hands of them as too extreme.

But without Western and/or Iranian/Turkish intervention it's hard to see the Iraqis, Kurds, Peshmerga, Syrians or Lebanese overcoming IS. They are well-armed and well-financed and use overwhelming violence and fear to sweep forward, reinforcing that fear via the media and internet. They also force young men to join their ranks or die. Once in the ranks, you don't leave.

And our leaders are seemingly scared of getting involved. Whether you agree the existence of IS is down to Western policy or not, we have a duty to help. Fine, don't put boots on the ground yet, but the combined air power of NATO is more than enough to defeat them, or at least weaken them enough that local forces can do what needs to be done. Limited US strikes will help but isn't enough.

RAF Tornados in a 'reconnaissance' role? Please. Grow a pair Cameron, and bomb these vile sub-human filth out of existence.

Re: IS and the Western response : Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:05 am  

Yes but, you forgot one key point... IT'S NOT GAZA!! SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF GAZA!!!

On a serious note regarding your post, i always thought i'd struggle with the idea of taking somebody's life if push came to shove, but i'd quite happily take out that rabble without hesitation. Horrible, horrible people.

Re: IS and the Western response : Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:05 am  

100% Wire wrote:

Yes but, you forgot one key point... IT'S NOT GAZA!! SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF GAZA!!!

On a serious note regarding your post, i always thought i'd struggle with the idea of taking somebody's life if push came to shove, but i'd quite happily take out that rabble without hesitation. Horrible, horrible people.

I understand what you mean. I think it's all about context though isn't it. The vast majority of normal people would struggle to take a life in cold blood for no reason.
But put in the context of someone who's threatening the lives of your kids? Then a lot of people's ability to take that life would suddenly change.

I have a couple of mates in the Army, one of whom has seen combat in the infantry in both Afghanistan and Iraq. In basic training he found thought of taking a life very difficult as it was all theoretical at that point. After he and his comrades had come under fire a few times he says he soon found himself, not eager, but perfectly willing to take a life and return fire at another human being. He himself says probably made easier by the fact it was from a distance and you couldn't really see the person you were firing at.

He was ordered to fix bayonets once, which to use his own words, "poop him right up". And those doubts came flooding back.

Generally, if you can justify it for some reason I think most people could take a life, especially from a distance where you don't connect the person as much as if they're up close.

That's why governments/dictatorships/religions/organisations/movements/cults etc always have to give their armies/followers a reason to kill.


As for the OP's point, I agree entirely. I think we should be bombing ISIS into oblivion and helping the Iraqis and Kurds take back their territory. And then help rebuild their country. I think Cameron is being pretty weak on this, especially when the US have already started with air strikes.

Hopefully some good might come out of this in the end as Iraq may actually work better together at national level and realise they can't afford to alienate any part of their country.

Re: IS and the Western response : Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:06 am  

Where are the mass protests, cabinet resignations, etc...

Nowhere, because no-one is interested. Because it's not Gaza.

I think we chucked some food parcels out of the back of a Herc though...

Re: IS and the Western response : Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:16 am  

leave them to it, we've been trying to "fix" the Middle East for centuries, it cannot and will not be done. leave Israel and Palestine to it as well.

We need to become a lot more Swiss about life, look after ourselves unless it's a direct threat.

Re: IS and the Western response : Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:25 am  

Him wrote:

I understand what you mean. I think it's all about context though isn't it. The vast majority of normal people would struggle to take a life in cold blood for no reason.
But put in the context of someone who's threatening the lives of your kids? Then a lot of people's ability to take that life would suddenly change.

I agree, and particularly when your OWN life is in danger, but i'm sure during the thousands of years of warfare, men have frozen on the spot in the heat of a fire/sword fight at the thought of killing and they've been killed themselves. These IS loonies would have no hesitation to end my life, purely for the fact that i'm a dirty, white Westerner, so i'd be a lot less hesitant about killing them first.

Re: IS and the Western response : Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:26 am  

The Video Ref wrote:

Where are the mass protests, cabinet resignations, etc...

Nowhere, because no-one is interested. Because it's not Gaza.

I think we chucked some food parcels out of the back of a Herc though...

Lady Warsi is probably cheering IS on from her home.... and her 2nd home probably

[Durham Giant]

Re: IS and the Western response : Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:47 pm  

Standee wrote:

leave them to it, we've been trying to "fix" the Middle East for centuries, it cannot and will not be done. leave Israel and Palestine to it as well.

We need to become a lot more Swiss about life, look after ourselves unless it's a direct threat.

Utter utter rubbish




We have never tried to fix the middle east we have tried to CONTROL it.

That control meant that we created artificial countries that have been riven by religious, ethnic, and tribal strife for years.

That ks why we slit the Kurds up into FIVE different countries.

The west will arm the Kurds now to do their dirty work and then will sit back when the Turks or someone else starts slaughtering them like they have done for the last 100 years.


.

Re: IS and the Western response : Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:48 pm  

Durham Giant wrote:

Utter utter rubbish




We have never tried to fix the middle east we have tried to CONTROL it.

That control meant that we created artificial countries that have been riven by religious, ethnic, and tribal strife for years.

That ks why we slit the Kurds up into FIVE different countries.

The west will arm the Kurds now to do their dirty work and then will sit back when the Turks or someone else starts slaughtering them like they have done for the last 100 years.


.

your opinion is consistent, I'll give you that.

Re: IS and the Western response : Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:59 pm  

Cameron being weak ?

Do him a favour, there's an election next year, if he sends in the Tornados now by next year it'll be boots on the ground and Afghanistan all over again, "Just when I thought I was out they PULL me back in again..."