Pay advice anyone? : Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:29 pm  

Can anybody help with this conundrum...

My 21 year old niece has been working for a local company for just over 3 years. When she started she was on £6.20 a hour, a rate of pay that she has remained on until 2 months ago, when she was informed by her supervisor that she had been underpaid for the previous 2 years by about 30p a hour. My niece was then informed that she would be paid back pay and to her delight, at the end of August, she had a nice £2000 'bonus' in her pay packet.

It must be pointed out that during all this, my niece had not sought any raise in her pay and was happy drifting along picking up a regular wage - It was her supervisor who had initiated this increase in pay.

However, this week, she has just been informed by the payroll team at her company's head office that this 'bonus' payment was an error, and though she is to remain on her increased pay rate, she has to return her £2000 back pay... They plan to get this off her by not paying her this month, or next!!

All this seems pretty unfair to me, though one sticking point for her seems to be that there was never any official paperwork notifying her of any errors in pay, or any notice of any backpay to be paid - Almost amateurishly, the money was simply deposited in her pay and she naively sailed on, unaware of the need for any official confirmation of this increase.

Just wondered if any of you out there could advise on this and the chances of telling her bosses to run if they think they are getting the £2000 back?

Re: Pay advice anyone? : Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:13 pm  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

Can anybody help with this conundrum...

My 21 year old niece has been working for a local company for just over 3 years. When she started she was on £6.20 a hour, a rate of pay that she has remained on until 2 months ago, when she was informed by her supervisor that she had been underpaid for the previous 2 years by about 30p a hour. My niece was then informed that she would be paid back pay and to her delight, at the end of August, she had a nice £2000 'bonus' in her pay packet.

It must be pointed out that during all this, my niece had not sought any raise in her pay and was happy drifting along picking up a regular wage - It was her supervisor who had initiated this increase in pay.

However, this week, she has just been informed by the payroll team at her company's head office that this 'bonus' payment was an error, and though she is to remain on her increased pay rate, she has to return her £2000 back pay... They plan to get this off her by not paying her this month, or next!!

All this seems pretty unfair to me, though one sticking point for her seems to be that there was never any official paperwork notifying her of any errors in pay, or any notice of any backpay to be paid - Almost amateurishly, the money was simply deposited in her pay and she naively sailed on, unaware of the need for any official confirmation of this increase.

Just wondered if any of you out there could advise on this and the chances of telling her bosses to run if they think they are getting the £2000 back?

One question (I know it will be rhetorical): Is she in a union?

If the company have made a mistake, they cannot rectify it by simply not paying her

Re: Pay advice anyone? : Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:17 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

One question (I know it will be rhetorical): Is she in a union?

If the company have made a mistake, they cannot rectify it by simply not paying her

No, she isn't in a union..... Apparently, she should have received her pay rise because her job description changed due to her being there for a year (More experience, more duties, more cash, I presume?).

Re: Pay advice anyone? : Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:54 am  

I suggest she first takes it up with her supervisor, he or she must've authorised the back-pay.

I also find it incredible that payroll would simply wave through a £2k bonus payment on the say so of a supervisor alone, someone higher up the tree must've given authorisation, otyherwise the company is wide open to theft and fraud.

There should be a grievance procedure that she can follow but as I stated earlier, the company cannot simply refuse to pay her until the "bonus" is repaid. A tribunal would have a field day with that.

Perhaps a phone call to ACAS if she thinks she's getting nowhere?

Re: Pay advice anyone? : Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:56 am  

Seems a bit unfortunate, but unless she had a new contract that outlined her new duties, which was signed & dated by herself & employer to signify the change of role & pay 2 years ago, then I doubt that anything can be done. However had there been a clear verbal acknowledgement of additional duties and extra pay (at the time of the occurance) then this might stand (although perhaps in this case there wasn't, hence it doesn't seem clear as to when the entitlement would occur).

A quote from the CAB website regarding overpayments:

"However, if there has been a genuine overpayment of your wages, your employer doesn't need your consent to recover this. They can make a deduction from your wages without your agreement. There are some exceptions to this rule and there are special rules about deductions made from shop-worker's pay."

Another thing is that the UK minimum wage for someone =>21 yrs went up to £6.50 / hr from 01 Oct 14, so she's not actually getting a payrise for taking on new duties, albeit if she was being paid £6.20 prior to the age of 21 then she was on more than the minimum for 18-20 yr olds in that period. Hence if she is now taking on new duties then perhaps she should be getting more than the minimum wage.

Minimum Wage Bandings shown as: >=21 / 18 to 20 / Under 18 / Apprentice*

2014 £6.50 / £5.13 / £3.79 / £2.73 (as of 01 Oct 14)
2013 £6.31 / £5.03 / £3.72 / £2.68
2012 £6.19 / £4.98 / £3.68 / £2.65
2011 £6.08 / £4.98 / £3.68 / £2.60
2010 £5.93 / £4.92 / £3.64 / £2.50

Of course, this is all just general advice from a keyboard legal "expert" - she should either put it down to experience and carry on (if she's happy working there still) or seek legal advice / CAB (which might cause futher "issues" with her continued employment).

Re: Pay advice anyone? : Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:04 pm  

Perhaps the company could take the money over the same timescale that it underpaid her?

Re: Pay advice anyone? : Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:11 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

I suggest she first takes it up with her supervisor, he or she must've authorised the back-pay.

I also find it incredible that payroll would simply wave through a £2k bonus payment on the say so of a supervisor alone, someone higher up the tree must've given authorisation, otyherwise the company is wide open to theft and fraud.

To be honest, I said similar to her - I couldn't see how a company would just hand over £2000 without some sort of communication by letter, but she seems adamant that it all went through on the say so of her supervisor.

It seems to me that somebody in payroll as probably had an ar$e kicking and now they are trying to recover their cash.

Re: Pay advice anyone? : Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:22 pm  

It seems, from my albeit very limited knowledge on these matters, a tricky one and, I would imagine, a relatively rare case.

As it's not a case of the employee being slightly over paid each month over a long period it's not a case where the employee "should have noticed". It's more like a case where the employee is given a bonus and then the company change their mind. It's not a clerical/transaction error either.
As she'd been promised it by a more senior member of staff and then received it she'd have been well within her rights (in my very inexpert opinion) to have spent it already. She could've gone out and booked a holiday or bought a car.

I can't see how, in any fashion, the company can just not pay her next month. I think the worst that'd happen is she'd have to repay it in instalments over a long period as Sal suggests. Though personally I don't see why she should repay it at all. The company made a decision to pay her, just because they don't like that decision now is just hard cheese.

But sadly my opinion on things isn't always the reality, otherwise Nigel Farage would be deported to Eastern Europe.

Re: Pay advice anyone? : Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:21 pm  

Like any 21 year old, im sure she has already blown the bonus she received? if not, I would pay it back so then she can receive a wage for 2 months. Its easy to see whats happened here, the difference in wage of 30p is the difference between what she was receiving and what a 21 year should receive under the minimum wage so the payroll department have messed up and back dated it more than was necessary. The company is quite within their rights to ask for the money back, whether not paying someone for 2 months is the way to go, I dont know. If she doesnt like working there, she could quit, citing constructive dismissal as she was under the impression this bonus was legitimate so spent it and now she has to work for 2 months unpaid which is not an option.

Regards

King James