Under new ownership -delusionals corner : Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:43 pm  

Many will already know the excellent app https://www.flightradar24.com which allows you to watch and follow almost every flight in the world. Flightradar24 is a Swedish internet-based service that shows real-time aircraft flight information on a map. It includes flight tracks, origins and destinations, flight numbers, aircraft types, positions, altitudes, headings and speeds. It aggregates data from multiple sources but, outside of the United States, mostly from crowdsourced information gathering by volunteers with ADS-B receivers. You can watch on your PC or download a mobile app. To see the sheer number of flights in the air, anywhere, at any given moment, on the zoomable scrollable maps is just mind-boggling. Anyway, what prompted this was the news that there is now an ADS-B receiver in the Antarctic, and earlier this afternoon it tracked its first landing at Troll Airfield in Queen Maud Land, Antarctica, a Boeing 737 from Cape Town to Troll.

Many will already know the excellent app https://www.flightradar24.com which allows you to watch and follow almost every flight in the world. Flightradar24 is a Swedish internet-based service that shows real-time aircraft flight information on a map. It includes flight tracks, origins and destinations, flight numbers, aircraft types, positions, altitudes, headings and speeds. It aggregates data from multiple sources but, outside of the United States, mostly from crowdsourced information gathering by volunteers with ADS-B receivers. You can watch on your PC or download a mobile app. To see the sheer number of flights in the air, anywhere, at any given moment, on the zoomable scrollable maps is just mind-boggling. Anyway, what prompted this was the news that there is now an ADS-B receiver in the Antarctic, and earlier this afternoon it tracked its first landing at Troll Airfield in Queen Maud Land, Antarctica, a Boeing 737 from Cape Town to Troll.

Re: Flight tracking : Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:29 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote: Many will already know the excellent app https://www.flightradar24.com which allows you to watch and follow almost every flight in the world. Sorry but again Your analysis is wrong. All Southern hemispheric Oceanic flights drop of screen after 100 mile of take off and then magically reappear 100 mile before landing. This is due to it being a ground based triangulation Radar and not Satellite. MH-370 ring any bells. Almost is laughable

Ferocious Aardvark wrote: Many will already know the excellent app https://www.flightradar24.com which allows you to watch and follow almost every flight in the world. Sorry but again Your analysis is wrong. All Southern hemispheric Oceanic flights drop of screen after 100 mile of take off and then magically reappear 100 mile before landing. This is due to it being a ground based triangulation Radar and not Satellite. MH-370 ring any bells. Almost is laughable

Re: Flight tracking : Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:50 pm  

FLAT STANLEY wrote: Sorry but again Your analysis is wrong. All Southern hemispheric Oceanic flights drop of screen after 100 mile of take off and then magically reappear 100 mile before landing. This is due to it being a ground based triangulation Radar and not Satellite. MH-370 ring any bells. Almost is laughable My analysis is spot on. Of course in any ground based system, the signal drops off as the plane disappears. (It wouldn't be so bad if the Earth was flat, but hey). The track of this morning's flight was shown until it came out of range of S Africa and was then picked up by the new Antarctic ground station. It isn't magic, the coverage is simply whatever available, either from tracking stations or the various other sources they use, mainly in the US. The primary technology that Flightradar24 use to receive flight information is neither triangulation nor satellite, it is called automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B). The basics of how it works are: 1. Aircraft gets its location from a GPS navigation source (satellite) 2. The ADS-B transponder on aircraft transmits signal containing the location (and much more) 3. ADS-B signal is picked up by a receiver connected to Flightradar24 4. Receiver feeds data to Flightradar24 5. Data is shown on www.flightradar24.com Due to the high frequency used by the ADS-B system (1090 MHz) the coverage from each receiver is limited to about 250-450 km (150-250 miles) in all directions. The farther away from the receiver an aircraft is flying, the higher it must fly to be covered by the receiver. (Due to the curve of the globe). The distance limit is why it is very difficult to get ADS-B coverage over the majority of open ocean. However other methods are available, if you are interested then the info is here: https://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works As the overwhelming majority of planes in the air are within reach of one of the systems at any given time, then yes, it is true to say that the vast majority can be tracked in pretty much real time - see the screenshot below which shows a number of planes crossing the Atlantic.

FLAT STANLEY wrote: Sorry but again Your analysis is wrong. All Southern hemispheric Oceanic flights drop of screen after 100 mile of take off and then magically reappear 100 mile before landing. This is due to it being a ground based triangulation Radar and not Satellite. MH-370 ring any bells. Almost is laughable My analysis is spot on. Of course in any ground based system, the signal drops off as the plane disappears. (It wouldn't be so bad if the Earth was flat, but hey). The track of this morning's flight was shown until it came out of range of S Africa and was then picked up by the new Antarctic ground station. It isn't magic, the coverage is simply whatever available, either from tracking stations or the various other sources they use, mainly in the US. The primary technology that Flightradar24 use to receive flight information is neither triangulation nor satellite, it is called automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B). The basics of how it works are: 1. Aircraft gets its location from a GPS navigation source (satellite) 2. The ADS-B transponder on aircraft transmits signal containing the location (and much more) 3. ADS-B signal is picked up by a receiver connected to Flightradar24 4. Receiver feeds data to Flightradar24 5. Data is shown on www.flightradar24.com Due to the high frequency used by the ADS-B system (1090 MHz) the coverage from each receiver is limited to about 250-450 km (150-250 miles) in all directions. The farther away from the receiver an aircraft is flying, the higher it must fly to be covered by the receiver. (Due to the curve of the globe). The distance limit is why it is very difficult to get ADS-B coverage over the majority of open ocean. However other methods are available, if you are interested then the info is here: https://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works As the overwhelming majority of planes in the air are within reach of one of the systems at any given time, then yes, it is true to say that the vast majority can be tracked in pretty much real time - see the screenshot below which shows a number of planes crossing the Atlantic.

Re: Flight tracking : Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:33 pm  

You're wrong again i'm afraid. I like your tactical nous by the way changing the subject thread in mid flow.

Right flight radars all belong to the same vendor. Meaning all flight/plane sites feed from one source. I have three Live flight radar screens open and there's not one southern hemispheric mid ocean flight between Australia, South America, and South Africa. Hmmm Fishy.

Firstly Planes do not have a Satellite feed MH-370 is bonafide proof of this.

Secondly you've contacted a copy and paste fetish, the picture you've supplied is a Northern hemispheric flight from Amsterdam all of these Northern hemisphere flights are tracked its southern hemisphere to Southern hemisphere which magically disappear.

Any flight route can be programmed into your own system. Simples

Re: Flight tracking : Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:56 pm  

If you want to claim I'm "wrong", give us a clue about what?

Who said planes "have a satellite feed"? I simply explained that they get GPS data. Like I can. Or you.

Last, nothing "magically disappears", as I already explained if no data is picked up from the aircraft then simply there is nothing to display, it is simply out of range. Being out of range isn't a hard concept. Why do you suggest they WOULDN'T go out of range would be the question. They are not magic, and can only pick up signals from within the range I told you, on the frequency I told you, so what is hard for you to understand?

Re: Flight tracking : Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:30 am  

FLAT STANLEY wrote:

which magically disappear.

Where? The Bermuda Triangle? Narnia?

Re: Flight tracking : Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:00 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

If you want to claim I'm "wrong", give us a clue about what? Who said planes "have a satellite feed"? I simply explained that they get GPS data. Like I can. Or you.

I think you're copy and pasting to much information and getting ahead of yourself in angst of attempting to prove me wrong, thats the way you're coming across anyway. Chill out.
The highlighted quote above contradicts your comment below:

Ferocious Aardvark Wrote1. Aircraft gets its location from a GPS navigation source (satellite)

Ferocious Aardvark Wrote Last, nothing "magically disappears", as I already explained if no data is picked up from the aircraft then simply there is nothing to display, it is simply out of range. Being out of range isn't a hard concept. Why do you suggest they WOULDN'T go out of range would be the question. They are not magic, and can only pick up signals from within the range I told you, on the frequency I told you, so what is hard for you to understand?

All Northern hemisphere flights are tracked yeah.So why aren't these Southern hemisphere flights tracked. Southern Hemispheric flights disappear off screen not because there's NO triangulation radar system, its because they don't want the real genuine flight route exposing due to the true Geographical mapping errors of the globe. I've heavily researched this topic. Thats why Southern hemispheric flights trackers are switched off not because there's less radar coverage.

So we know GPS is essentially Ground Based Positioning triangulation after you arguing it was Satellite in another thread, And the Americans invented and control all the these systems. Now the Americans don't do anything small, so going by your reasoning they forgot to triangulate the Four Southern Oceans, i doubt this very much your reasoning is all frenzied copy and paste, and not your own true self opinion which is folly.

Re: Flight tracking : Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:19 pm  

I am sort of replying to nutty Stan, but more in general, as I think the general topic of tracking aircraft around the globe is fascinating, and the information may interest a wider audience. (In fact, I doubt it will interest Stan at all, as his mind is firmly shut, but still).

FLAT STANLEY wrote:

I think you're copy and pasting to much information and getting ahead of yourself in angst of attempting to prove me wrong, thats the way you're coming across anyway. Chill out.

One of us gets all excited and giddy whenever posting, usually going off into rants and abuse, and it ain't me

Pretty much veryone already knows 100% that you are wrong, and thinks you're nuts. There would be no point in trying to "prove" you are wrong, it would be as fruitful and pointless as trying to "prove" today is Thursday in the UK. All I'm doing is helpfully providing information, politely answering your less mad questions, and in a way guiding you towards the light, but I do know you have no wish to see it.

FLAT STANLEY wrote:

The highlighted quote above contradicts your comment below:

In what way? A plane gets its position via GPS same as you can in your car. Unless you believe that the satellite is also tracking your car, it isn't a hard concept. The satellite is not tracking your car. It is giving out its own time and position and your GPS software is calculating the rest.

You don't actually think your car GPS beams information back to the satellite, do you?

FLAT STANLEY wrote:

All Northern hemisphere flights are tracked yeah.

No. information is exchanged (ie actively), when possible. The plane is not tracked (passively) unless it is in range of tracking equipment, ie radar. it could be, but it isn't.

You clearly have no insight into the complexity of ATC (air traffic control) or the obstacles in receiving and exchanging data over vast expanses of ocean. Active communications from aircraft are to a considerable extent possible using HF (High frequency) radio, and Controller–Pilot Data Link Communication (CPDLC) using a data link to exchange information with air traffic control. If you are interested, google it. Then look up ACARS, FANS-1/A, ATN/CPDLC.

But what you need to understand is that while a plane's pilot knows where he is, because he gets that info from GPS, planes are not equipped to relay that information on to anywhere else. Ground controllers rely on active verbal broadcasts, data transmissions or automated, or passive radar. If the plane doesn't broadcast (MH370 switched off its transponder) then effectively once off the radar, it is invisible, save for the data pings it may then periodically send to satellites using ACARS.

You could Google ADS-B (Automatic Dependent Surveillance Broadcast) - which over maybe the next 10 years will replace radar as the main plane location system for airports. To some extent this is already in use, the plane works out its position using GPS and then relays data to the ground, and to other planes, but ADS-B coverage still won't extend over the world's oceans, and the data won't be relayed back via satellite.

ACARS is the system that so far has provided the most clues to MH370. This is a data information system. The plane does periodically send a "ping" to satellites giving technical information about the plane's systems and any issues. The idea is to forewarn the airline of any maintenance work that might be needed at the next stop. But the ACARS ping again does not include any information about the aircraft's position - the track had to be worked out by triangulation from the information recorded by satellite.

FLAT STANLEY wrote:

So why aren't these Southern hemisphere flights tracked.

The problem of constant plane position monitoring is not one of technology, but one of cost. A plane COULD be constantly tracked, over land, oceans, or whatever, if it was equipped (as it could be) to constantly upload updates to the satellite network. The reason this is not done is, simply, expense. the sheer volume of data that would constantly be being uploaded by all the planes in all the world to the satellite network would be ruinously expensive, and so is unlikely to happen any time soon.

Also, what would be the point? Once a plane is out of range of land, there would be 99.99999% of the time little or no advantage in having a satellite fix on it as it would add nothing ATC needed to know that current systems don't already provide.

Had MH370 had such a system, would it have solved the mystery? Probably not - since it seems the pilot/s switched off all the other comms systems, and so it can be presumed they would have switched off or disabled that one, too.

FLAT STANLEY wrote:

Southern Hemispheric flights disappear off screen not because there's NO triangulation radar system, its because they don't want the real genuine flight route exposing due to the true Geographical mapping errors of the globe. I've heavily researched this topic. Thats why Southern hemispheric flights trackers are switched off not because there's less radar coverage.

Stan - you said "globe"! Well done you!!

Was it me that convinced you the Earth's not flat? I do hope it was!

So, how do you explain the latest tracking station in Antarctica that I initially highlighted in this thread? This does indeed do exactly that which you claim can't be done, and which you claim there is a conspiracy not to do - it tracks planes incoming to land in that part of Antarctica. It puts them up on screen as soon as they signals are received. It could not do this if the planes switched them off. there was a regular flight from cape Town to Troll, and anyone who wanted to follow it could see it take off live from Cape Town and watch it on Flightradar24 as it merrily went on its way - then pick up its flight as soon as it came within range of the new tracking station, and 'watch' it land.

FLAT STANLEY wrote:

So we know GPS is essentially Ground Based Positioning triangulation after you arguing it was Satellite in another thread,

You do come up with idiotic statements, Stan. GPS is entirely based on SATELLITES which constantly broadcast o the ground. The network is set up so that wherever on the globe you are, a minimum of 3 or 4 satellites of the GPS network should be in line of sight. Each satellite constantly transmits data giving its position and the current time on the satellite's clock at regular intervals. These signals are picked up by any GPS receiver, which calculates how far away each satellite is, based on how long it took for the messages to arrive (the information states what time the signal was broadcast; your GPS knows the time now; it then simple deducts one from the other, and the distance that light travels in the resulting fraction of a second is the precise distance to that satellite).

Once it has information on how far away at least three satellites are, your GPS receiver can pinpoint your location, as there is only one place on the globe where all three of the measured distances intersect.

If you have info from 4 or more satellites, you can also work out your altitude.

FLAT STANLEY wrote:

...they forgot to triangulate the Four Southern Oceans, i doubt this very much your reasoning is all frenzied copy and paste, and not your own true self opinion which is folly.

No, the satellites do cover the globe. All of it. Even the southern oceans. Even the north and south poles. Every inch of the surface of the globe. Do I make myself clear?

Also, while it is sometimes helpful to cut and paste, in general I either don't, or if I do I usually quote it to make it clear. There is nothing cut n pasted in this post.

Re: Flight tracking : Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:04 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

I am sort of replying to nutty Stan, but more in general, as I think the general topic of tracking aircraft around the globe is fascinating, and the information may interest a wider audience. (In fact, I doubt it will interest Stan at all, as his mind is firmly shut, but still)..

It really is a shame you cannot debate without personal infantile cranial insults. You lost the debate in your first sentence. The subject does interest me grossly as i've researched the Globular fallacies and deficiencies of the Southern Hemisphere flights. MH-370 Obliterate's your whole copy and paste concept Simples. There is nothing you can tell me about this topic

Ferocious Aardvark Wrote No, the satellites do cover the globe. All of it. Even the southern oceans. Even the north and south poles. Every inch of the surface of the globe. Do I make myself clear?

Again MH-370 Obliterates your concept hahahaha Heard you loud and clear...

Re: Flight tracking : Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:03 pm  

FLAT STANLEY wrote:

It really is a shame ...

I speak only the truth

FLAT STANLEY wrote:

. There is nothing you can tell me about this topic

You might actually believe that. Only a nutty person would believe that, and so QED.

Actually though it is just your standard defence mechanism - when you have no answer to a host of intelligent and specific points, just bluster your way out.

You never have any answer. To the most reasoned point. You have no wish at all to debate. So you just stick your fingers in your ears and go "nah nah nah".

It is no doubt irritating for you that I continually underline and demonstrate that you have nothing, except your bullcrap and bluster, and to that extent (if it really is true that you are out of the thread) my work is done.