: Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:46 pm  

Der Kaiser 1 wrote:

Thats the problem again with the RFL-SL clubs are treated like kings and the likes of fax, Leigh, Widnes who all have/had good academy´s were treated like crap.Because of this Fax have lost out on a number of juniors who have signed at Bradford, Huddersfield and Salford. I suspect Leigh and Widnes have similar stories. The U21s/Reserves is a joke and needs sorting. So is the U18s and no wonder the English National team struggles as the right structure is not in place at Youth and academy levels let alone first grade. Many clubs facilities are simply crap but who cares things are rosy at SL level

I'm with Der Kaiser on this one big time.
No offence to the Widnes poster & Starbug, I sort of understand where they're coming from, but would like to genuinely ask them both how many of their kids have developed into first grade from last season's reserves ?
I'm not thumbing my nose at anyone by that, but the SL clubs are wanting us to act as feeder clubs for them for a damned good reason. How many Fev kids have come through their system ?
There's a common theme developing here and we're all close neighbours geographically of current SL clubs, that's a box that we can't possibly "tick".
Is there any point in running a reserves side at the moment, Leigh & Widnes, I look forward to your positive responses.

: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:39 pm  

marillion man wrote:

I'm with Der Kaiser on this one big time.
No offence to the Widnes poster & Starbug, I sort of understand where they're coming from, but would like to genuinely ask them both how many of their kids have developed into first grade from last season's reserves ?
I'm not thumbing my nose at anyone by that, but the SL clubs are wanting us to act as feeder clubs for them for a damned good reason. How many Fev kids have come through their system ?
There's a common theme developing here and we're all close neighbours geographically of current SL clubs, that's a box that we can't possibly "tick".
Is there any point in running a reserves side at the moment, Leigh & Widnes, I look forward to your positive responses.

I agree with you to a certain extent - not that many players end up coming thorugh to be good enough for 1st team. If you're outside SL, however and you want to apply for a licence, you need the youth set up in place.

Whether Widnes have 8 home grown players who are good enough for 1st team or not is a debateable point, but if push comes to shove, Widnes can always call on the u18's and u21's if required and tick a few licence boxes at the same time. They do cost a lot of money and the only real top class player to come through at Widnes recently was Richard Myler who we lost when we went bust. In the past few seasons very few players have come through and exelled - it all looks good on paper though.

: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:52 pm  

[quote="marillion man"]I'm with Der Kaiser on this one big time.
No offence to the Widnes poster & Starbug, I sort of understand where they're coming from, but would like to genuinely ask them both how many of their kids have developed into first grade from last season's reserves ?
I'm not thumbing my nose at anyone by that, but the SL clubs are wanting us to act as feeder clubs for them for a damned good reason. How many Fev kids have come through their system ?
There's a common theme developing here and we're all close neighbours geographically of current SL clubs, that's a box that we can't possibly "tick".
Is there any point in running a reserves side at the moment, Leigh & Widnes, I look forward to your positive responses.[/quote]

Well it all depends on what you are trying achieve ?

Having somewhere to keep a squad of players match fit and ready to step up if/when required should be of benifit to any club

Obviously somewhere that recuperating 1 st team players can test themselves after injury is a good idea

As for producing your own ' new ' players , well that is a difficult one , several of Leigh's 1 st team squad this year have come through all the way from the Scholarship aged 12/15 all the way through or now defunct u 18's and the u 21's/reserves , I get it to at least 9 having a quick count

Of those at the moment there is probably only one that will end up leaving and moving up into SL , although you can get late developers and with a different coaching approach maybe one or two more might well make it given time

That is why I was asking what competition you junior academy was going to play in , if you are trying to bring players through for the next round of franchises it will take longer than 2/3 years

As far as the RFL pushing all clubs to produce players yes it is not for our [NL/Championship ] clubs benifit , but will be for the benifit of the SL clubs and ultimatley the national squads

So what are you trying to achieve ?

: Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:51 am  

As far as the RFL pushing all clubs to produce players yes it is not for our [NL/Championship ] clubs benifit , but will be for the benifit of the SL clubs and ultimatley the national squads

Is it really a benefit bringing Kids through who clearly have not been taught the basics and then thrown in at SL and even international level? The Clubs are not producing players at all in SL-Look at Bradford, Wigan, Hull KR, Warrington, Wakey and see how many foreigners they have and how many first teamers they have who are from their academy. It was another lie the SL clubs told about being unable to bring through academy players due to fear of relegation. Thats gone and has anything changed? NO!!

If the RFL were serious about changing the state of the game Internationally then they would sort out a Proper meaningful Competition for the U18s and U21s with Promotion and Relegation. They would also make clubs invest in proper training facilities for academy players rather than waste it on Some Aussies. Most academy players are not as good as they think and are rarely tested to prove themselves like in Australia. SL is a joke with Leeds and St.Helens usually streets ahead of the rest come the end of the season

Gold Coast Titans are spending 30 Million Dollars on a State of the Art Training Centre yet I doubt the whole of the SL clubs have spent that in the past 5 years on training facilities. Its OK having an academy but it needs to fill a purpose. That purpose must be to bring youngsters through for your first team. But then they need proper training and facilities to achieve this. This is not happening in the UK at all. The young players at Leigh are not SL level and likely never will be except the odd rare exception. Thats often down to the training facilities, The Coaching staff spending around 6 hours a week not 40 hours with them. Most of the top Youngsters do well at Academy level, but simply are out of their depth at SL. Mainly again due to poor facilities, Having no real competition to test themselves week in week out at their Age level and often thinking they are better than what they are. SL Clubs are only interested in themselves. They have no interest in the National team.

My personal opinion is the whole Youth sector from Amateur Under 6s through to Professional Academy needs a major overhaul. Training facilities need to improve at amateur and professional level. Coaching standards need to improve especially at Regional and National level. All games need to have a meaning. Creative Skills need to be enhanced-look at how many Aussies/Kiwis are at 6,7,9 and 13 in SL! Defence needs to be worked on alot more. Training an academy a couple of evenings a week in poor facilities is doing little. Either do it properly or do not bother.

: Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:23 am  

Exactly what needs to happen DK. Well put. But, will it happen when stevo likes to say "this years super league will be the best ever" ? The RFL philosophy is, if it looks shiny on top no one notices the cracks inderneath. For all this to happen the game needs a change in philosophy and the licence criteria to be applied firmly and consistently.

We all know this won't happen

: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:06 am  

surely theres more chance of bringing through better players if you get them at a younger age than picking them up when there older to age which we would do to get into the reserves side but the problem we will always have is if kids have the choice:

leeds or fax

bradford or fax

etc

so in my eyes the rfl are better seeing how many players you produce when you're in super league not outside it

: Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:17 pm  

Starbug wrote:

marillion man wrote:

I'm with Der Kaiser on this one big time.
No offence to the Widnes poster & Starbug, I sort of understand where they're coming from, but would like to genuinely ask them both how many of their kids have developed into first grade from last season's reserves ?
I'm not thumbing my nose at anyone by that, but the SL clubs are wanting us to act as feeder clubs for them for a damned good reason. How many Fev kids have come through their system ?
There's a common theme developing here and we're all close neighbours geographically of current SL clubs, that's a box that we can't possibly "tick".
Is there any point in running a reserves side at the moment, Leigh & Widnes, I look forward to your positive responses.[/quote]

Well it all depends on what you are trying achieve ?

Having somewhere to keep a squad of players match fit and ready to step up if/when required should be of benifit to any club

Obviously somewhere that recuperating 1 st team players can test themselves after injury is a good idea

As for producing your own ' new ' players , well that is a difficult one , several of Leigh's 1 st team squad this year have come through all the way from the Scholarship aged 12/15 all the way through or now defunct u 18's and the u 21's/reserves , I get it to at least 9 having a quick count

Of those at the moment there is probably only one that will end up leaving and moving up into SL , although you can get late developers and with a different coaching approach maybe one or two more might well make it given time

That is why I was asking what competition you junior academy was going to play in , if you are trying to bring players through for the next round of franchises it will take longer than 2/3 years

As far as the RFL pushing all clubs to produce players yes it is not for our [NL/Championship ] clubs benifit , but will be for the benifit of the SL clubs and ultimatley the national squads

So what are you trying to achieve ?

It would seem my question on here about what competition your u 18's team will play in has been answered by the RFL

Keith Latham the Chairman of Leigh East has been informed that ALL NL1/Championship clubs will be required to run u 18 teams

They will have to nominate an amatuer club to ' run it '

Apparently Leigh will have to choose between Easts,Miners and Golborne

So my suggestions that you will end up in a partnership with Siddal looks like coming true