FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Accounts
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman6619
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 22 200123 years124th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
24th Nov 24 14:1724th Nov 24 14:13LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Halifax, the sleeping giants of Rugby League
Signature
AM I RIGHT? I'M NOT WRONG!

Re: Accounts : Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:17 pm  
That's why there needs to be a strict LOW salary cap to stop this player gazumping. I'm still waiting for 4 championship clubs to release their 2023 results, but if we exclude French club Toulouse and SL bound Wakey, and include relegation bound London, of the 9 clubs so far only Batley and Swinton are solvent - Batley because they own their ground and Swinton's balance sheet is helped by some useless goodwill and they tapped Salford Council for some money after the year end.

As for players being"poorer" ..... are they actually "poor"? It's their choice to play RL, if they don't like the money then do something else. As for "richer" players giving more entertainment ....... watching the Wakey v York game on the sportsmen it was far more entertaining than full time Hull v Salford and York's efforts put Hull's to shame.

I've no idea where we're going from here. We'll just plod along and I see a big dip in season ticket sales after the recent drama, with the floating fans choosing their games more and more, Not just Fax, but all the clubs. I foresee Fev being the next championship club to plead poverty, and as I've said before Batley selling their ground to survive. The sport is in its biggest mess in its history.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman6619
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 22 200123 years124th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
24th Nov 24 14:1724th Nov 24 14:13LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Halifax, the sleeping giants of Rugby League
Signature
AM I RIGHT? I'M NOT WRONG!

Re: Accounts : Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:30 pm  
Greg Florimos Boots wrote:
I've often thought that lowering prices might be an option but when it has been done in the past it has not shown a significant increase on the gate which must make it hard for the club to justify doing it. The problem is paying over £20+ entrance fee is disproportionate to the standard of rugby on offer.


There's no way new fans will be attracted at £20, not a chance. There have been several occasions in the pub after a match when I've been asked by an "interested" rugby non-attending fan how much it costs to get in nowadays and my "20 quid" reply is greeted by "HOW MUCH????" and to be honest I'm fairly embarrassed by it, especially when I've watched some really drab games wanting to leave before the end.

But if the clubs think lowering the admission is simply not affordable then so be it, but the current option will also eventually be unaffordable as the fan base will gradually diminish over time anyway.
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach3212
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 26 200519 years250th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
23rd Nov 24 17:1922nd Nov 24 13:49LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Bradford
Signature
Pollsters doing Excellent job - say recent polls.

Re: Accounts : Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:04 pm  
At championship level your standard mainstay squad player has a trade as his primary job - earning him somewhere around £30k +/-
He then plays part-time RL for an additional £10-£15k per year.
And that is it. You can build a 22 man squad for about £250k from that premise. And RL is a simple enough game that it will be competitive.

The younger ones who have come through an academy without being picked up will dream of playing well enough to "make it" and be offered £50k to go full time with an SL club.
The older ones will be happy to build their job up as the priority and look for a decent part-time club to earn enough for all the family extras that make a difference when cost of living is so high.

Is this pool of players getting smaller? Is it wage growth due to inflation? Putting their bodies on the line does have a risk towards their main job so they will want to maximize their part-time earnings. The championship clubs have just had their central funding axed and the fans are feeling the pinch as well.
faxcar 
RankPostsTeam
International Star4572
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 26 201014 years68th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
15th Nov 24 21:1711th Nov 24 18:21LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Accounts : Mon Sep 16, 2024 3:23 pm  
[Part quote="Highlander"]At championship level your standard mainstay squad player has a trade as his primary job - earning him somewhere around £30k +/-
He then plays part-time RL for an additional £10-£15k per year.
And that is it. You can build a 22 man squad for about £250k from that premise. And RL is a simple enough game that it will be competitive." End.

Not having a go and a serious question.
When has Bradford's playing budget past and present ever fitted into the financial figures mentioned above.
How much was Dec Patton on, how much did it cost to get Gaskell to sign, how much is Joe Keyes going to be paid.
How many other players are being paid between £10-£15 k per year and what is the likely hood of that ever happening?
It's all too deeply rooted and too far gone and now events are catching up and it's difficult to know what or if there is an answer.

Maybe if enough go bust and enough of them still have the desire they rise from the ashes and form a division that's based on the lower wages / entrance fees that have been mentioned.
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach3212
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 26 200519 years250th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
23rd Nov 24 17:1922nd Nov 24 13:49LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Bradford
Signature
Pollsters doing Excellent job - say recent polls.

Re: Accounts : Mon Sep 16, 2024 3:48 pm  
faxcar wrote:
[Part quote="Highlander"]At championship level your standard mainstay squad player has a trade as his primary job - earning him somewhere around £30k +/-
He then plays part-time RL for an additional £10-£15k per year.
And that is it. You can build a 22 man squad for about £250k from that premise. And RL is a simple enough game that it will be competitive." End.

Not having a go and a serious question.
When has Bradford's playing budget past and present ever fitted into the financial figures mentioned above.
How much was Dec Patton on, how much did it cost to get Gaskell to sign, how much is Joe Keyes going to be paid.
How many other players are being paid between £10-£15 k per year and what is the likely hood of that ever happening?
It's all too deeply rooted and too far gone and now events are catching up and it's difficult to know what or if there is an answer.

Maybe if enough go bust and enough of them still have the desire they rise from the ashes and form a division that's based on the lower wages / entrance fees that have been mentioned.


Those 3 you mentioned are all halves. Usually a premium on them.

A specific example is recently Thomas Doyle - Bradford offered him £25k to stay but Keighley went for £30k. He had fulltime offer from Leigh in the £45k range which didn't compensate for his job so he stayed part-time.
I'm a Bradford fan, and I can see the issues. Bradford have options for jobs for players - in the foundation, in the academy. Whilst the academy costs low 6 figures, it does provide alternative sponsorship & funding streams. And the 3 newest directors (excluding Wood) do seem to be prepared to fund various areas for IMG points but also the performance side on the pitch.
I would say currently in Bradfords squad - Arundel, Hallas, Davies, Smith, Baldwinson, Butler are all the older type of player who have either been in SL or have no desire for SL and will take a decent part-time wage.
Scurr, Myers, Jowitt, Peposhi are all the second type of player, still trying to prove to an SL club they are worth a shot.
The elephant in the room (which I understand) is that Bradford have signed at least 6 overseas/Aussie players who won't have come over for that kind of wage. They'll have to be on more, possibly split with the foundation.
faxcar 
RankPostsTeam
International Star4572
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 26 201014 years68th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
15th Nov 24 21:1711th Nov 24 18:21LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Accounts : Mon Sep 16, 2024 4:34 pm  
Highlander wrote:
Those 3 you mentioned are all halves. Usually a premium on them.

A specific example is recently Thomas Doyle - Bradford offered him £25k to stay but Keighley went for £30k. He had fulltime offer from Leigh in the £45k range which didn't compensate for his job so he stayed part-time.
I'm a Bradford fan, and I can see the issues. Bradford have options for jobs for players - in the foundation, in the academy. Whilst the academy costs low 6 figures, it does provide alternative sponsorship & funding streams. And the 3 newest directors (excluding Wood) do seem to be prepared to fund various areas for IMG points but also the performance side on the pitch.
I would say currently in Bradfords squad - Arundel, Hallas, Davies, Smith, Baldwinson, Butler are all the older type of player who have either been in SL or have no desire for SL and will take a decent part-time wage.
Scurr, Myers, Jowitt, Peposhi are all the second type of player, still trying to prove to an SL club they are worth a shot.
The elephant in the room (which I understand) is that Bradford have signed at least 6 overseas/Aussie players who won't have come over for that kind of wage. They'll have to be on more, possibly split with the foundation.


I had thought of the overseas players but wanted to keep it short and with that it mind the short answer is none of them standard players who play regular first team are on 10-15k and the 25k to 30k bidding scenario is exactly what I was referring to often with much higher amounts involved.

I'll resist the temptation to say who the elephant in the room is but Nigel Wood in this weeks rugby league press says on Bradford's turn over ( income / spending )
that it had increased form £1,715,762 in 2022 to £2,131,351 in 2023 turning a £270,288 a loss into a £21,288 profit for the same period which although it will cover all aspects of running a club still dwarfs and is over 10 times the £250k amount mentioned to be able to run a rugby club on.

Also worth mentioning Bradford are still in the Championship and if and when they do get into SL those figures will no doubt get much bigger.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach9528
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 18 200520 years53rd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
24th Nov 24 12:3723rd Nov 24 13:36LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."― Albert Einstein


"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense." ― Gertrude Stein


"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ― Abraham Lincoln

Re: Accounts : Mon Sep 16, 2024 5:04 pm  
Tony Fax wrote:
There's no way new fans will be attracted at £20, not a chance. There have been several occasions in the pub after a match when I've been asked by an "interested" rugby non-attending fan how much it costs to get in nowadays and my "20 quid" reply is greeted by "HOW MUCH????" and to be honest I'm fairly embarrassed by it, especially when I've watched some really drab games wanting to leave before the end.

But if the clubs think lowering the admission is simply not affordable then so be it, but the current option will also eventually be unaffordable as the fan base will gradually diminish over time anyway.


The biggest problem Fax have at the moment is keeping hold of existing fans nevermind attracting new ones. I know we mentioned the Wakey game which was the lowest attendance that I have seen from a Fax following at a game in a long time. From someone who has gone religiously for around 40 years and even when we moved down to the Shay there was a group of about 20 of us that would go to every game, we would book dining packages, most of us had large sponsorship packages at one time or another, but over the last few years this number has dwindled right down to 4 or 5 if we are lucky, dining is too expensive and poor quality, and none of us sponsor anymore for one reason or another, and the ones who still do go are picking and choosing games.

Last season was the first season I had really picked and chosen games but the games were snoozefests and I could easily go and watch an amateur team on Saturday and have Sunday free and if you pick a decent game it can offer a bit more entertainment than what we have served up in the games over the last couple of seasons. The fact that our games are shown on YT a couple of days after I am not sure helps things as I know I can watch the game a couple of days after anyway if people have said it were a good game.

So I would still class myself as a diehard fan but Im not going to drag my mates down to games for the reason that TF mentions about the price when for the same money you can go and have a few pints at an amateur club and a lot of my mates do now sponsor at amateur teams where it always feels like your money is more appreciated. How do Fax tap in to the area to attract new fans? Its no longer as simple as giving out some free tickets at schools knowing parents will have to take their kids, you can see even when they have the community teams down you might get 7 or 8 out of maybe 25 or 30 players so even on planned days parents are not sending their kids. When I were younger everyone either went to the football or rugby because thats just what you did but there is just so much else that people can do these days. Its obviously not just a Fax problem but it is one that we can see is affecting us massively.
faxcar 
RankPostsTeam
International Star4572
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 26 201014 years68th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
15th Nov 24 21:1711th Nov 24 18:21LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Accounts : Mon Sep 16, 2024 6:54 pm  
The biggest problem Fax has are the same problems many other clubs are having including losing former supporters and some of their so called fans keep slagging them off on the public platforms, almost every thread is littered with them.

You can just imagine if they were an hotel with the same sort of reviews from those connected to the place how many new visitors they'd have.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach9528
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 18 200520 years53rd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
24th Nov 24 12:3723rd Nov 24 13:36LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."― Albert Einstein


"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense." ― Gertrude Stein


"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ― Abraham Lincoln

Re: Accounts : Mon Sep 16, 2024 7:15 pm  
faxcar wrote:
The biggest problem Fax has are the same problems many other clubs are having including losing former supporters and some of their so called fans keep slagging them off on the public platforms, almost every thread is littered with them.

You can just imagine if they were an hotel with the same sort of reviews from those connected to the place how many new visitors they'd have.


The flip side you could argue would be if those people who were slagging the club off had not have kept asking questions, would we still have a club? The proof is in the pudding about how badly the club has been run, is there any chance that if it were better run then there would be less people slagging the club off?
faxcar 
RankPostsTeam
International Star4572
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 26 201014 years68th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
15th Nov 24 21:1711th Nov 24 18:21LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Accounts : Mon Sep 16, 2024 8:33 pm  
Greg Florimos Boots wrote:
The flip side you could argue would be if those people who were slagging the club off had not have kept asking questions, would we still have a club? The proof is in the pudding about how badly the club has been run, is there any chance that if it were better run then there would be less people slagging the club off?


The flip flip side is how many of those people who are slagging off the club and asking the questions were capable of supplying an answer themselves?

This situation is precisely what I said, Fax are facing the same problems many other clubs are facing so it would be more accurate to say the proof is in the pudding about how badly the CLUBS have been run.

Is there any chance of the clubs being better run by slagging them off?

The choice of support or slagging off usually depends on each persons disposition and what type of people they are inside.
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ckt2487, Listenup94 and 112 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to Halifax Panthers


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
2m
Ground Improvements
vastman
169
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2594
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
ArthurClues
504
Recent
Salford
Uncle Rico
25
Recent
Film game
Boss Hog
5683
Recent
Dual Reg
The Phantom
11
Recent
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40749
Recent
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63242
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
The Dentist
4031
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
3m
How many games will we win
PopTart
28
3m
2025 merchandise
BarnsleyGull
17
3m
Shopping list for 2025
DSJ1983
5585
4m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40749
4m
Accounts
Tony Fax
136
5m
Squad 2025
Tony Fax
61
5m
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
Bent&Bon
6
6m
Super League
Dr Dreadnoug
24
6m
2025 Shirt
Choc Ice
19
8m
Fixtures 2025
Jake the Peg
69
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Mike Ogunwole
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Bailey Dawson
Wanderer
1
TODAY
2024
REDWHITEANDB
14
TODAY
Dan Norman Retires
Cokey
1
TODAY
How many games will we win
PopTart
28
TODAY
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
Bent&Bon
6
TODAY
Catalan Away
Dannyboywt1
6
TODAY
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
2025 fixtures
Smiffy27
15
TODAY
Fixtures
Willzay
13
TODAY
Salford
Uncle Rico
25
TODAY
WCC Off
Choc Ice
11
TODAY
Leeds away first up
FIL
50
TODAY
Jake McLoughlin
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Assistant Coach - Langley
exiledrhino
30
TODAY
Noah Booth out on loan
Big lads mat
22
TODAY
Luke Gale testimonial match
BarnsleyGull
2
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
944
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
585
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
1312
England's Women Demolish The W..
1145
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1375
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
1172
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1426
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1972
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
2179
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2419
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1988
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
2225
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2696
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
2121
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
2194
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington - Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
2m
Ground Improvements
vastman
169
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2594
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
ArthurClues
504
Recent
Salford
Uncle Rico
25
Recent
Film game
Boss Hog
5683
Recent
Dual Reg
The Phantom
11
Recent
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40749
Recent
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63242
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
The Dentist
4031
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
3m
How many games will we win
PopTart
28
3m
2025 merchandise
BarnsleyGull
17
3m
Shopping list for 2025
DSJ1983
5585
4m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40749
4m
Accounts
Tony Fax
136
5m
Squad 2025
Tony Fax
61
5m
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
Bent&Bon
6
6m
Super League
Dr Dreadnoug
24
6m
2025 Shirt
Choc Ice
19
8m
Fixtures 2025
Jake the Peg
69
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Mike Ogunwole
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Bailey Dawson
Wanderer
1
TODAY
2024
REDWHITEANDB
14
TODAY
Dan Norman Retires
Cokey
1
TODAY
How many games will we win
PopTart
28
TODAY
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
Bent&Bon
6
TODAY
Catalan Away
Dannyboywt1
6
TODAY
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
2025 fixtures
Smiffy27
15
TODAY
Fixtures
Willzay
13
TODAY
Salford
Uncle Rico
25
TODAY
WCC Off
Choc Ice
11
TODAY
Leeds away first up
FIL
50
TODAY
Jake McLoughlin
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Assistant Coach - Langley
exiledrhino
30
TODAY
Noah Booth out on loan
Big lads mat
22
TODAY
Luke Gale testimonial match
BarnsleyGull
2
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
944
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
585
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
1312
England's Women Demolish The W..
1145
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1375
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
1172
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1426
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1972
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
2179
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2419
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1988
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
2225
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2696
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
2121
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
2194


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!