Re: widnes await rfl word on skysports website : Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:31 am  

tb wrote:

So would I. I've yet to see it happen though

Indeed

Re: widnes await rfl word on skysports website : Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:31 am  

tb wrote:

You've confused me even more. wtf are you talking about?


They will look at the financial history of all applicants over the period since the last franchise round in 2008. They will consider both Wakey's and Crusaders' financial records, which includes the administration events. The administration is no longer an automatic loss of a licence in the next round, but it is still a factor when considering bids. One factor. The ground issue is another one factor. There are many factors taken into account.

There are 17 factors if you know the application process, 5 of which are the main body of the application. One of the main ones is the clubs financial records. I stated this in my last post if you had bothered reading it properly before you had replied.

Re: widnes await rfl word on skysports website : Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:01 pm  

tb wrote:

have a read again

it boils down to: they're not proper teams with proper fans, they don't bring people to our gaff to make up for the shortage of home fans we're attracting.

Thing is though tb, we can't ditch a poor supported northern side who might still plod on for the next 20 years with little progression on the gamble that a side from a city that has a few people who occasionally flick Sky sports on and leave the rugby league match on because there's nothing else on TV at that moment, will magically turn into a SL dream team. The RFL need to be nurturing the potential SL sides so that in 5 or 10 years they can be brought in, possibly replacing a northern plodder team or even along side them. But if we replace too many northern plodder teams with gambles from cities that on the whole couldn't give a monkeys about our game, then our game will die on it's booty. At the moment the northern plodder teams are the bread and butter of our competition.

If I'm honest, I didn't really read that much into the post from mallcmjlm100 where he comments on the away following of these teams. I suppose I should since it was pretty much basically 90% of the content of the post. Pulling that to bits is easy of course and I'm not one for bashing the away following of a team in another country, I've recently defended them on casforum but I'm not digging that up just to prove a point. Take my word for it, I'm a big man and don't have to worry about telling porkies to make myself look good or anything.

Whilst maybe not that clear in mallcmjlm100's post, and maybe he didn't even think it at all, I actually took the general tone of his post and general feeling of many fans of our sport in the West Riding and beyond, well at least many on the M62 corridor. When seeking to improve or game through franchises (which I am all in favour for) we need to make sure we're not doing it at the expense of our established clubs and possibly even more important our establish rugby league fans.

I know of plenty of Cas fans, who when Quins, Crusaders and Catalans are in town actually stay at home and save their money. They wouldn't miss a derby game with Leeds or Wakey or crowd puller against Warrington or Saints though. They're by no means "glory" supporters picking the best games but more picking the games which will have a good vibe about them.

Going back to mallcmjlm100's post, half empty stadiums be it Quins home ground or our own Coliseum don't get the buzz going among some fans when they are half empty or 90% empty even. They don't want to come and watch a game where you can hear a pin drop but want to be part of the packed house. Of course not all the responsibility is on the away fans, we at Cas need to improve our attendances ourselves but part of our problem is that some fans just don't want to be part of these poor attended games. I know we're not helping ourselves and it's kind of a catch 22 thing. But some people will argue that if we were playing the M62 teams each week they might want to go to more games. I know plenty of people who turn up for these such games. They don't see Quins, Cru or Cats (the franchise expansion teams) as anything exciting but will be there for Widnes, Salford and the rest.

The RFL need to be passionate about growing our game, they need to set their levels and that of our clubs high. But they must also be realistic in their aims. You can often talk yourself into a good idea and convince yourself it is right and that it will work (Gateshead anyone) but in reality it's never sustainable at the level you hoped it would, at least not right now. Quins are showing that if they can keep their heads above sand the game can grow outside the heartlands but they're also showing how tough it can be. Widnes have been out of the top for a while now but if I was a betting man i'd bet they would be first for success next between themselves, Quins, Cat's and Crusaders. There's no guarantee of it, but since they're actually in a rugby league area where most want the game they have more chance of getting a role on a la Warrington Wolves in recent years. This is something Cas are looking to do, get some momentum going and build our club up on the back of a new stadium build and a passionate local population who are waiting for the game to throw us some glory. Outside the heartlands it seems as if we're all just sat praying that places like London and Wrexham will suddenly feel the need to forget about football and go watch league instead.

I watch the NRL weekly and wish our competition was as attractive a product and agree that franchising is possibly a way to get us there. But don't bring in silly rules to get rid of a Cas or Wakey etc at the expense of a product which just isn't attractive to the majority of our lovers of the game.

Re: widnes await rfl word on skysports website : Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:16 pm  

im not a club basher but its got to be fair for everyone it should go back to if you finish bottom your relagated its as simple as that no matter what club you are

[tb]

Re: widnes await rfl word on skysports website : Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:40 pm  

I disagree

P&R between different comps at different levels (professional and semi pro; or semi-pro and amateur) doesn't work and only damages clubs.

P&R within a comp, between different divisions at the same level does. I look forward to the day when we have enough clubs strong enough to be fully professional that we can look at introducing two divisions with P&R. But I think that's a good few years off yet.

Re: widnes await rfl word on skysports website : Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:39 pm  

tb wrote:

I disagree

P&R between different comps at different levels (professional and semi pro; or semi-pro and amateur) doesn't work and only damages clubs.

P&R within a comp, between different divisions at the same level does. I look forward to the day when we have enough clubs strong enough to be fully professional that we can look at introducing two divisions with P&R. But I think that's a good few years off yet.

Considering that generally interest is waning in the Championships ( despite it being a fantastic competition ) , that isn't going to happen in a hurry , and as an aside to the general feel of the recent posts

Why do people watch live sport ?

It isn't to see two teams playing each other , it is to ' feel ' the emotion of being in an arena with an atmosphere , quite often of us against them , there is a big crowd on at Headingley right now , with drums banging , fans singing and cheering partly because of a large and vociferous away support

If it was just to see two good teams play each other all those fans would be sat at home or in the pub , getting a better view , seeing more of the action , watching all the replays , saving a fortune , but they don't , they tip up , ' to be there '

Leigh are paying for coaches to bring Widnes fans to the game at the LSV next week , why ? , to bump up our average by a few hundred ? , no , to make money out of them ?, no as it is a split gate , we are doing it to try to improve the atmosphere at a game , in the hope that more home fans will attend and want to come back

We don't want a ' sanitized ' nice squeaky clean sport , we want atmosphere , emotion , we want to ' feel '

That is why people attend live sport , about time the RFL realised that

Re: widnes await rfl word on skysports website : Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:55 pm  

I rest my case , I'm sure the pie fans will remember being there tonight , for the rest of their lives

Emotion is why we watch live sport

[tb]

Re: widnes await rfl word on skysports website : Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:38 pm  

Starbug wrote:

I rest my case , I'm sure the pie fans will remember being there tonight , for the rest of their lives

Emotion is why we watch live sport

But they've nothing to play for. If they win the SL GF they don't get to be promoted to another competition, they just get to do it all over again. Just like teams in the Championship. Or teams in the Rugby League Conference National Division. In fact the only teams with anything to play for in your world are those in Championship 1. By rights, that should be the only compeition booming.
Mind if teams do win that and get promoted, then they've nothing to play for.

Re: widnes await rfl word on skysports website : Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:20 pm  

tb wrote:

But they've nothing to play for. If they win the SL GF they don't get to be promoted to another competition, they just get to do it all over again. Just like teams in the Championship. Or teams in the Rugby League Conference National Division. In fact the only teams with anything to play for in your world are those in Championship 1. By rights, that should be the only compeition booming.
Mind if teams do win that and get promoted, then they've nothing to play for.

Well strangely in every sport you will eventually reach the peak , where you are correct , you cannot go any higher , and yes you are correct , that does apply in the amateur game as well , But that wasn't the point being made was it ?

You completely ignored that as usual