Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:10 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

I was in the seats, usually I am in the boxes. And it was clearly evident, you are just choosing to ignore it for the sake of it.

I'm not ignoring anything, i heard nothing, whats more the only one who does seem to have heard anything is you, the leeds fan that apparently follows cas.


I am pointing out how silly you all sound in trying to say chanting at Leeds on Saturday was the same as you had got in trouble for. I prefer to leave it to the authorities and the clubs to deal with.

Who is to say what is acceptable and what is unaceptable? why is one form of abuse worse than another? by saying some forms of abuse is alright you surely make the problem worse as it creates divisions in society. I'm sure you would be happy as leeds fans to leave it to the authorities.

Homophobic chanting is exactly the same as racist chanting, and has been dealt with the same way for years. It is dealt with the same way in society also. So yes Homophobic/Racist chanting is entirely different to some other abuse. Or at least society deals with it that way.

By its very nature it cannot be exactly the same, all homphobes are not racist and vice versa. So your saying that some people should be allowed to be abused, isnt that the opposite of what the respect campaign is trying to achieve ie that all forms of abuse and discrimination are wrong and will not be tollerated.

Just because you are the first club to reduce it's self to the level of personal homophobia does not mean you should be allowed to get away with it. Chants hear previously of this nature were banter against players who it was clearly known where not gay. You were chanting on somethign where it was known to all that the player concerned was gay, and therefore it was personal abuse.

The club did not reduce itself to anything, the club did nothing that was homophobic and quite clearly stated that they do not condone such things before, during and after that game. I was not chanting anything thank you very much and neither were 99% of the cas fans. Well all know that graham has red hair so some leeds fans are quite clearly guilty of personal abuse, discrimination and bigotry. Has the leeds club made any attempt to deal with the culprits?

How do you define the respect policy? The respect policy to me means no racist/homophobic chanting at players of a ethnic or sexual preference. The referees element is clearly defined in relation to the players. But in relation to the fans it is that the referee is to feel safe at all times.

The respect policy is on the whole about making sure you know one is abused or discriminated against for being differant. Be that be gay or ginger.

Only one club I recall has made a referee fear for his safety, and again only one club I recall has been investigated for homophobic chanting.

Banter at referees has been going on since the game began, and it is clear at all sporting events. So it's hardly likely the ruling bodies will take action against a banter at a referree. Making that ref fear for his safety however, should and will be actioned on.

And would you like to answer my question, in your eyes are some forms of abuse to players ok and others not? yes or no answer please.

Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:20 pm  

pyeman wrote:

And would you like to answer my question, in your eyes are some forms of abuse to players ok and others not? yes or no answer please.

Did you choose to ignore that?

Gotcha wrote:

Homophobic chanting is exactly the same as racist chanting, and has been dealt with the same way for years. It is dealt with the same way in society also. So yes Homophobic/Racist chanting is entirely different to some other abuse. Or at least society deals with it that way.

Just because you are the first club to reduce it's self to the level of personal homophobia does not mean you should be allowed to get away with it. Chants hear previously of this nature were banter against players who it was clearly known where not gay. You were chanting on somethign where it was known to all that the player concerned was gay, and therefore it was personal abuse.

To be fair to you and question you are asking. Yes I do think abuse of a personal nature should be treated the same. And by that I mean Racist, homophobic, Fat, or Ginger, or others of a personal nature.

But you know just as clearly as I do that those are not dealt with the same in society, and by the same token the RFL policy does also not deal with Fat and Ginger comments the same as Racist and homophobic comments. It follows the same as society in general does.

As long as society in general deals that way then why should the RFL act differently upon it?

Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:28 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

Did you choose to ignore that?

To be fair to you and question you are asking. Yes I do think abuse of a personal nature should be treated the same. And by that I mean Racist, homophobic, Fat, or Ginger, or others of a personal nature.

But you know just as clearly as I do that those are not dealt with the same in society, and by the same token the RFL policy does also not deal with Fat and Ginger comments the same as Racist and homophobic comments. It follows the same as society in general does.

As long as society in general deals that way then why should the RFL act differently upon it?

Perhaps because the respect policy of the rfl isnt that we will punsih whichever forms of disrimination are worse its that we will punish all forms of discrimination.

Since you agree that personal abuse of players is wrong, surely you would agree that the leeds club deserves some sort of reprimand for giving players personal abuse?

Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:33 pm  

pyeman wrote:

Perhaps because the respect policy of the rfl isnt that we will punsih whichever forms of disrimination are worse its that we will punish all forms of discrimination.

Since you agree that personal abuse of players is wrong, surely you would agree that the leeds club deserves some sort of reprimand for giving players personal abuse?

How do you work that one out?

How can you be punished for something in the game that is not against the rules of the game?

The rules didn't change you know just because Cas fans kicked up a stink about their own punishment. You were punished within the rules of the game. I have seen enough of your posts to know you are not foolish, so surely you are not daft enough to think clubs should be punished outside of the rules?

Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:54 pm  

But Leeds were guilty of abusing a player...but because of an implied sliding abuse/moral scale should be overlooked against what the RFL are trying to implement with their Respect policy?

Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:00 pm  

pyeman wrote:

The rfl have now set a precedent, unless there is a bias all club should be treated eqaully.

So we're going to complain about every game then?

Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:02 pm  

waltontiger wrote:

But Leeds were guilty of abusing a player...but because of an implied sliding abuse/moral scale should be overlooked against what the RFL are trying to implement with their Respect policy?

It doesn't say anything of the like in the respect policy.

You also have to remember that respect policy is right the way down to the grass roots of the game, not just at pro level. And therefore is trying to cover everything that it can.

As with any rule in life you need to use common sense aswell. Something that appears to be lacking by some posters I can see.

Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:05 pm  

Abuse is Abuse you cannot differentiate

Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:20 pm  

waltontiger wrote:

Abuse is Abuse you cannot differentiate

Society in general differentiate, so of course you can differentiate. Does that make it right? no in my opinion.

But regardless are you seriously foolish enough to argue that the RFL should adopt a different view to society in general?

You do realise that Racist, Homophobic, or Sexist comments are not acceptable in society full stop by law? and that the RFL deal with those type of comments in the same manner.

Did you hold the same views before last week? Are you going to say that it does not matter that it was Leeds on Saturday, but I would have said the same even if we had not got a fine?

Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:12 pm  

It didn't matter it was Leeds just as it was unlucky to be first on sky as it was Cas for gt first away game.
The policy is matter of fact and not open to interpretation or else it would be vague guidelines and not a policy.
And yes before last week I have had personal knowledge of the fine line between banter and abuse/bullying, so have my values set accordingly.