Re: Lewis - Crowds shouldnt be an issue ! for london that is : Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:23 am  

binks wrote:

Uh surprise surprise a Wakey troll! how is up on the peacock today mate

Ignore it mate. This one normally appears around the time we play them to clog up the board for a few days, before (thankfully) disappearing into the ether again shortly after.

Yed™ wrote:

Hey! nowt wrong with London
Loads of buses and trains, museums a plenty, and best of all a lot more money.

Not all places are a dump, just the east, south, parts of north west and croydon.
It's lovely were i live

I like London - not sure I'd want to live there but have had many a great weekend there in the past. Plenty to see and do, and it's easy to get about too.


To go back to the original topic, I was thinking about this the other day. Perhaps as part of the franchising process, every club should get a Joker, which they're allowed to play against any aspect of the criteria they choose. The chosen criterion is then omitted from the overall application, leaving the remaining elements of the bid in place to create a stronger application. So for Harlequins, they play it against attendances and we could play it against our facilities. Unfortunately for Wakey, it would only be possible to play it against one of the criteria, rather than all of them...

(ooh look trolls, we can make funnies too!)

Re: Lewis - Crowds shouldnt be an issue ! for london that is : Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:20 pm  

BD wrote:

"..attendances should not yet be used to measure the success of the game in London."

That is such a ridiculous statement to make. Yes, youth development and such can be a sign of improvement, but if people aren't bothering to turn up and actually watch the stuff then it is obvious that RL isn't striking the right chord in London. Thus it is lacking in "success".

... unless I'm looking at this totally wrong.

You are looking at it completely wrong. Sure Quins crowds are a measure of success, but they certainly aren't the only measure and nowhere near the key measure.

Viewing figures for RL in London are higher than most other areas of the country, I'm happy to be corrected, but I believe Super League on Sky gets more people watching it from the south than in the north. This, coupled with the number of amateur teams around London, the number of Londoners coming through to play Super League and international level shows the game is spreading to areas that aren't the heartlands.

As for attendances at Quins. For me to get to a Quins match, it would take around an hour and a half from my house in South London. To put this into perspective, when I lived in Birmingham it would take me an hour and a half to get to a Cas home game. Indeed, I could get to a Cas home game in under four hours now, so even though Quins is geographically a small distance from me, time wise it's the equivalent of a 100mile journey in the north of England.

Now, how many Cas fans go to away games? Significantly fewer than go to home games. This is due to proximity of the home ground to their home. If travelling for less than an hour is enough to put 90% of the Cas fans off watching their team in Hull, you can start to understand why the whole of London isn't moving en masse to every single Quins game.

The realistic target area for Quins home fans in Richmond. That is a population of around 200,000 people, making it around the same size as Huddersfield. Having a team in London is great for the game, but just because they're in London, don't believe the Stoop is around the corner from Oxford Street and easily accessible to Londoners, because it's not, and as such, people won't make as much effort to get there and instead focus on local amateur games and watching SL on TV - and those are the real measures of the sport's popularity in London

Re: Lewis - Crowds shouldnt be an issue ! for london that is : Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:22 pm  

Gazemous wrote:

You are looking at it completely wrong. Sure Quins crowds are a measure of success, but they certainly aren't the only measure and nowhere near the key measure.

Viewing figures for RL in London are higher than most other areas of the country, I'm happy to be corrected, but I believe Super League on Sky gets more people watching it from the south than in the north. This, coupled with the number of amateur teams around London, the number of Londoners coming through to play Super League and international level shows the game is spreading to areas that aren't the heartlands.

As for attendances at Quins. For me to get to a Quins match, it would take around an hour and a half from my house in South London. To put this into perspective, when I lived in Birmingham it would take me an hour and a half to get to a Cas home game. Indeed, I could get to a Cas home game in under four hours now, so even though Quins is geographically a small distance from me, time wise it's the equivalent of a 100mile journey in the north of England.

Now, how many Cas fans go to away games? Significantly fewer than go to home games. This is due to proximity of the home ground to their home. If travelling for less than an hour is enough to put 90% of the Cas fans off watching their team in Hull, you can start to understand why the whole of London isn't moving en masse to every single Quins game.

The realistic target area for Quins home fans in Richmond. That is a population of around 200,000 people, making it around the same size as Huddersfield. Having a team in London is great for the game, but just because they're in London, don't believe the Stoop is around the corner from Oxford Street and easily accessible to Londoners, because it's not, and as such, people won't make as much effort to get there and instead focus on local amateur games and watching SL on TV - and those are the real measures of the sport's popularity in London

Totally agree, on Friday i left my house in Barnet at 1655 hoping to get down there and catch a bit of the build up before the 1930 kick off, i arrived(only 20 miles away btw) at 1915.

From the most easterly point of the M25 to the most westerly point it is the same distance from the HJ to Headingley, i wouldn't exactly call that local.

I think a lot of people underestimate how big London actually is.

[tb]

Re: Lewis - Crowds shouldnt be an issue ! for london that is : Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:04 pm  

to add to that: it takes two hours to get to the Stoop. It takes me 3.5 to get to Wheldon Road

Quins's crowds - which are far from good - are no more the measure of the success of RL in London than Salford's are the measure of the success of the game in Lancashire

Re: Lewis - Crowds shouldnt be an issue ! for london that is : Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:08 pm  

tb wrote:

to add to that: it takes two hours to get to the Stoop. It takes me 3.5 to get to Wheldon Road

And how often do you go to WR?

Re: Lewis - Crowds shouldnt be an issue ! for london that is : Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:30 pm  

Lewis is a complete buffoon. IIRC it was around the same time as Cas, Wakey & Salford received warning letters about their stadiums that Harlequins were warned about their crowds. Why on earth make an issue of the size of a club's crowd if a couple of years later you're going to do a complete u turn? The size of Quins' crowd may not be a reflection of the success of RL in London but its as sure as hell a reflection of the success of Quins.
I presume that Cas & Wakey's lack of stadiums will now be viewed in the same lackadaisical manner as Quins' local support and largely ignored in the forthcoming franchise application process.

[tb]

Re: Lewis - Crowds shouldnt be an issue ! for london that is : Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:55 pm  

Towns88 wrote:

And how often do you go to WR?

to date this season, I've been to every home game, two away games (Bradford and Quins) and Cardiff, plus the Hull FC friendly. I won't be there this Friday, or at Saints away, but will be there for the Leeds game, bringing Mintball and our niece. I'm a season ticket holder. I'm not the furthest from the ground by any means, but I'd guess I'm on the far end of the bell curve: I don't think you can conclude that because I put that effort into getting to Cas, it says anything about Londoners regularly travelling across what is, ateotd, a county, not a city.

Re: Lewis - Crowds shouldnt be an issue ! for london that is : Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:57 am  

ExiledTiger wrote:

Lewis is a complete buffoon. IIRC it was around the same time as Cas, Wakey & Salford received warning letters about their stadiums that Harlequins were warned about their crowds. Why on earth make an issue of the size of a club's crowd if a couple of years later you're going to do a complete u turn? The size of Quins' crowd may not be a reflection of the success of RL in London but its as sure as hell a reflection of the success of Quins.

I would agree with that, and Quins need to do much more to get people through the gate, no doubt about that

Re: Lewis - Crowds shouldnt be an issue ! for london that is : Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:45 am  

Gazemous wrote:

You are looking at it completely wrong. Sure Quins crowds are a measure of success, but they certainly aren't the only measure and nowhere near the key measure.

Viewing figures for RL in London are higher than most other areas of the country, I'm happy to be corrected, but I believe Super League on Sky gets more people watching it from the south than in the north. This, coupled with the number of amateur teams around London, the number of Londoners coming through to play Super League and international level shows the game is spreading to areas that aren't the heartlands.
probably not true unless thats just because there are more sky boxes in the south, also up north we actually go to watch SL rather than watch at home or in the pub
As for attendances at Quins. For me to get to a Quins match, it would take around an hour and a half from my house in South London. To put this into perspective, when I lived in Birmingham it would take me an hour and a half to get to a Cas home game. Indeed, I could get to a Cas home game in under four hours now, so even though Quins is geographically a small distance from me, time wise it's the equivalent of a 100mile journey in the north of England.
attendances = cash, cash = a viable business, no cash = bankrupt
Now, how many Cas fans go to away games? Significantly fewer than go to home games. This is due to proximity of the home ground to their home. If travelling for less than an hour is enough to put 90% of the Cas fans off watching their team in Hull, you can start to understand why the whole of London isn't moving en masse to every single Quins game.
a damn site more than the miserable fifty or so london fans that bother to come, if you can attract a few thousand to the stoop, and it takes about 2 hours to get there, why not take the same amount two hours up the M1?
The realistic target area for Quins home fans in Richmond. That is a population of around 200,000 people, making it around the same size as Huddersfield. Having a team in London is great for the game, but just because they're in London, don't believe the Stoop is around the corner from Oxford Street and easily accessible to Londoners, because it's not, and as such, people won't make as much effort to get there and instead focus on local amateur games and watching SL on TV - and those are the real measures of the sport's popularity in London

Re: Lewis - Crowds shouldnt be an issue ! for london that is : Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:15 pm  

gazemous wrote:

You are looking at it completely wrong. Sure Quins crowds are a measure of success, but they certainly aren't the only measure and nowhere near the key measure.

Viewing figures for RL in London are higher than most other areas of the country, I'm happy to be corrected, but I believe Super League on Sky gets more people watching it from the south than in the north. This, coupled with the number of amateur teams around London, the number of Londoners coming through to play Super League and international level shows the game is spreading to areas that aren't the heartlands.

kinleycat wrote:

probably not true unless thats just because there are more sky boxes in the south, also up north we actually go to watch SL rather than watch at home or in the pub

Of course we can't decide for sure unless we had figures, a quick glance of Google reveals nothing. Either way, the 'more boxes' argument is utterly stupid - do you think people accidentally stumble upon a two-hour programme on a Friday or Saturday night and sit there in front of it without acknowledging or enjoying it?

gazemous wrote:

As for attendances at Quins. For me to get to a Quins match, it would take around an hour and a half from my house in South London. To put this into perspective, when I lived in Birmingham it would take me an hour and a half to get to a Cas home game. Indeed, I could get to a Cas home game in under four hours now, so even though Quins is geographically a small distance from me, time wise it's the equivalent of a 100mile journey in the north of England.

kinleycat wrote:

attendances = cash, cash = a viable business, no cash = bankrupt

How does this relate to my travel ability? Of course Quins need better attendances to survive, that has nothing to do with the success of RL in London though, which is the point under discussion.

gazemous wrote:

Now, how many Cas fans go to away games? Significantly fewer than go to home games. This is due to proximity of the home ground to their home. If travelling for less than an hour is enough to put 90% of the Cas fans off watching their team in Hull, you can start to understand why the whole of London isn't moving en masse to every single Quins game.

kinleycat wrote:

a damn site more than the miserable fifty or so london fans that bother to come, if you can attract a few thousand to the stoop, and it takes about 2 hours to get there, why not take the same amount two hours up the M1?

Because they're not attracting people two hours away to The Stoop, they're focused more on getting the locals in and people from West London, not people in the South East of London! Plus, I'm not sure how many RL grounds you can get to from central London in two hours. Your point makes no sense.

gazemous wrote:

The realistic target area for Quins home fans in Richmond. That is a population of around 200,000 people, making it around the same size as Huddersfield. Having a team in London is great for the game, but just because they're in London, don't believe the Stoop is around the corner from Oxford Street and easily accessible to Londoners, because it's not, and as such, people won't make as much effort to get there and instead focus on local amateur games and watching SL on TV - and those are the real measures of the sport's popularity in London

This man speaks sense, you should listen to him