Re: referee v leeds : Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:23 am  

sgtwilko wrote:

I'm not too fussed if people hate us or not! Leeds are a very popular team over here where they appreciate our achievements.

I think you will find Leeds are the most successful team in the salary cap era! Not Wigan who compared to Leeds, Saints and Bradford have failed miserably since the cap was brought in. Wigan bought their success pre salary cap.

Given St Helens have won 1 Super League Champions (SL1) and 4 Grand Finals (5 runners up, 1 Stones Premiership runners-up), 7 Challenge Cups (1 runners up), 2 World Club Challenge victories (2 runners-up apps) whereas Leeds have won 5 Grand Finals (2 runners up) and 1 Challenge Cup (5 runners up) and 3 World Club Challenge victories (2 runners-up apps), I'd say that Saints are the most successful side in the 'salary cap era'.


Saints have won 14 major trophies/titles since 1996 whereas Leeds have won 9. Saints have been runners-up 9 times, Leeds 9 times.

14 beats 9, 9 is a draw against 9 and 23 beats 18. Game, set, match St Helens.

Re: referee v leeds : Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:31 am  

(and just for the record I never said Wigan were the most successful side in SL era, just in RL era!)

Re: referee v leeds : Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:32 am  

Towns88 wrote:

(and just for the record I never said Wigan were the most successful side in SL era, just in RL era!)

Don't worry. He'll change tack now and say that he actually only meant the SL competition, even though the salary cap applies across all competitions.

Re: referee v leeds : Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:35 am  

Fully wrote:

Given St Helens have won 1 Super League Champions (SL1) and 4 Grand Finals (5 runners up, 1 Stones Premiership runners-up), 7 Challenge Cups (1 runners up), 2 World Club Challenge victories (2 runners-up apps) whereas Leeds have won 5 Grand Finals (2 runners up) and 1 Challenge Cup (5 runners up) and 3 World Club Challenge victories (2 runners-up apps), I'd say that Saints are the most successful side in the 'salary cap era'.


Saints have won 14 major trophies/titles since 1996 whereas Leeds have won 9. Saints have been runners-up 9 times, Leeds 9 times.

14 beats 9, 9 is a draw against 9 and 23 beats 18. Game, set, match St Helens.

Ah selective arguing there. Leeds are the only team to win SL Back to back titles, they are the only team ever to win SL 3 times in a row. Leeds are the only team to win the GF and WCC in the same season. Leeds are the only team to win 5 GF's.

Leeds may not have as many CC's as saints but have more WCC's, plus they hold 4 unpresidented records in the game.

Re: referee v leeds : Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:36 am  

Probably so. I don't wana derail too much. Overall, I thought a couple of big decisions harshly went against us. But Leeds were ruthless, clinical and Hall, BJB & Watkins were very good, but we also made them look good with McGoldrick & Griffin particularly poor in defence. But there's reason to be optimistic, we were competitive, leeds knew they'd been in a game. We need to look onwards and (hopefully) upwards. Millington impressed, ferres is getting better. Would like to see Walker added to the side for London too.

Re: referee v leeds : Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:38 am  

Fully wrote:

Don't worry. He'll change tack now and say that he actually only meant the SL competition, even though the salary cap applies across all competitions.

No just the facts. I didn't even mention the team we have dominated the most is saints.

Re: referee v leeds : Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:41 am  

sgtwilko wrote:

No just the facts. I didn't even mention the team we have dominated the most is saints.

What do you define as dominating?

You've beat them in 4 grand finals, I wouldn't really call it dominating. I'd guess throughout super league, they've beaten you more.

Re: referee v leeds : Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:42 am  

sgtwilko wrote:

Ah selective arguing there. Leeds are the only team to win SL Back to back titles, they are the only team ever to win SL 3 times in a row. Leeds are the only team to win the GF and WCC in the same season. Leeds are the only team to win 5 GF's.

Leeds may not have as many CC's as saints but have more WCC's, plus they hold 4 unpresidented records in the game.

Selective arguing? Leeds have won 5 Grand Finals but Saints have won 4 Grand Finals and won the League in SL1, which would effective count as the equivalent of the GF victory at that time. Therefore, that's all square.

Besides: you said the most "successful" side. Success is usually defined by trophies. Saints have won more trophies. Doesn't matter whether they're back to back or every other year. You're not the most successful, fact, as shown above.

Re: referee v leeds : Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:46 am  

why do leeds celebrate the fact that ryan bailey is a cowardly thug? whilst the rest of the rugby league family condenm him the rhino's defend his behaviour and even seem proud of it.

Re: referee v leeds : Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:47 am  

PS. If you want to bring in a load of things such as "records", which don't define success in the grand scheme of things but more consistency and benchmark at this moment in time, then by my guest.

Personally, success over a sustained period of time is all about the numbers. Is a team that wins 4 back to back titles more successful than one that has won 4 over a period of 15 years? No.