Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:03 pm  

castigers13 wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6725653.stm

That link should also be sent to the RFL.

Not only were there the chants about Graham, but there was also the abuse of the referee, with him being called a w*****r. Not once did I hear the respect announcement on the tv.

Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:12 pm  

You cannot equate generic jokes about being "fat and ginger" to direct, homophobic, vivid abuse. Homophobic abuse is illegal.

If James Graham came out and said "I find that offensive", then you might have a basis. However I am 99% sure he gets worse from his own team mates (I can say this as my best mate is ginger), and it wouldn't surprise me if chants of that kind actually helped get him psyched up.


The bottom line is you are kidding yourselves if you think anything will come of this.

Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:15 pm  

Good post they should if the RL are consistent this is still descrimination of the highest order this is more serious than yours as this was the whole stand and not just a few mindless idiots.

Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:26 pm  

Matt King's Barber wrote:

You cannot equate generic jokes about being "fat and ginger" to direct, homophobic, vivid abuse. Homophobic abuse is illegal.

If James Graham came out and said "I find that offensive", then you might have a basis. However I am 99% sure he gets worse from his own team mates (I can say this as my best mate is ginger), and it wouldn't surprise me if chants of that kind actually helped get him psyched up.


The bottom line is you are kidding yourselves if you think anything will come of this.

Ah, the old 'my best friend is...' defence, it works every time.

Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:51 pm  

It isn't a defence I am just using anecdotal evidence of how a group of young lads who are all mates will probably make jokes about one of the mates being ginger.

In my close circle of friends I happen to have mates who are ginger and gay and black.

I don't know what it is inside me, but I would never make a racist/homophobic comment, yet the ginger jokes come thick and fast.

Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:56 pm  

The point I am trying to make is, imagine the St Helens dressing room.

can you see jokes being made by one player about Graham being ginger? YES.
can you see jokes being made by one player about Eastmond being black? NO.
if a St Helens player announced he was gay, can you see jokes (of the same calibre that were chanted at Castleford) being made by one player towards the other player? NO.

On the basis of that you cannot equate illegal abuse with what is common at every sports venue across the country.

Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:02 pm  

Matt King's Barber wrote:

if a St Helens player announced he was gay, can you see jokes (of the same calibre that were chanted at Castleford) being made by one player towards the other player? NO.

We can see you holding hands

Yep, I'm sure worse wouldn't be said to GT in the Crusaders dressing room, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they made soap in the showers jokes in a light hearted manner.

Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:04 pm  

Matt King's Barber wrote:

can you see jokes being made by one player about Eastmond being black? NO.

Why not, my hubby works with a lovely colour guy, been to our house a couple of times.
He gets the P taken out of him all the time.
I had a go at my hubby for doing it, our frield WHO IS COLOURED said no worries it dont bother him. He once had a gollywog(can i say that) bought by a work mate, he as it in his works van.

So team mates/work mates do have good humoured banter.
Some can take it some cant.

Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:06 pm  

Matt King's Barber wrote:

The point I am trying to make is, imagine the St Helens dressing room.

can you see jokes being made by one player about Graham being ginger? YES.
can you see jokes being made by one player about Eastmond being black? NO.
if a St Helens player announced he was gay, can you see jokes (of the same calibre that were chanted at Castleford) being made by one player towards the other player? NO.

On the basis of that you cannot equate illegal abuse with what is common at every sports venue across the country.

In law look up Section 5

he Public Order Act 1986, Section 5 states:

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he:

(a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or
(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby.

Re: Leeds £40K fine coming? : Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:15 pm  

Those last few words are what it boils down to;

"ikely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby".


Homophobic abuse is almost certain (in the context of a crowd chanting it at a certain player) to cause distress.

Ask James Graham how he feels about being called ginger.



The bottom line is, all these efforts about trying to get Leeds in hot water for what their South Stand were chanting would be better spent organising a campaign within your own club to weed out the small small small minority of idiots to ensure not a penny is wasted paying fines again.