Re: You should win ... : Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:56 pm  

Agent Mulder wrote:

The try was not scored on the seventh tackle as the ref wiped the tackle count clean.

correct. on the play on cas's left hand side before it was swung over to the opposite side. First of all I thought he's called a knock on but a speccie next to me said it was via a cas hand and back to one.

Re: You should win ... : Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:25 am  

Agent Mulder wrote:

The try was not scored on the seventh tackle as the ref wiped the tackle count clean.

No problem with the try, a Cas defender played at the Saints kick through so tackle count was properly wiped clean. We may also have got lucky with the Dixon conversion which could have been judged to have crossed the top of the upright. However I genuinely believe we did not benefit from one other 50/50 call and was particularly unhappy with:-
(i) the ball spill leading to Saints second try
(ii) Bentham failing to call the final tackle and deciding to raise his arm after Cas' last play-the-ball.
(iii) Cas being adjudged to have somehow got a finger on a pass to Shenton which he subsequently looked to have palmed forward anyway
(iv) saints being awarded a scrum feed when the Cas player in support of a clean break was tackled without the ball

Re: You should win ... : Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:35 am  

I think there were some bad calls and I haven't seen Terry's comments after the match yet, but in reality I think we had enough ball and enough quality to win, but we didn't. The 5th tackle thing, whether the ref signalled it or not, I rather think it is our own game managements responsibility to know, rather than wait for the ref to tell us it is the last?

We are in a wobble, we have surpassed our expectations in the first 8 games and now it comes down to if we believe enough that we are a top 6 side or if we allow ourselves to believe we were in a false position - the Quins, Wakey and Saints games were all mental, not physical and not refereeing problems..... The bubble of considence needs to come back.
In my view the game changer was when Danny on the 4th play went for a miracle inside ball the Mathers under too much pressure, the percentage play there is to find the floor and go again with a quick play of the ball at a disrupted defensive line..... That said Danny was brilliant yesterday and on another day Mathers pouches it, straight in under the posts and game over.....

It doesn't get any easier this week with Leeds, but we need to just believe a little bit more and trust ourselves to be strong enough if we play our own game.

Re: You should win ... : Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:05 am  

First things first, nobody can question the committment of the players yesterday - that was one of our best performances of the season against one of the best and most creative sides in the league. The game was fast flowing, entertaining, exciting and overall a great spectacle. I was gutted to lose, but clearly not as much as the players were - they deserved to get something out of that game and Terry Matterson's post-match comments are spot on. If Danny Orr said what he's alleged to have said to the referee, then it was wrong but who can blame him? The level of frustration from not only yesterday's game, but a number of recent games must be proving difficult to keep a lid on the emotions. The only 50:50 we got yesterday was the conversion where the touch judges disagreed. As for the others: I've no idea how Saints second try wasn't a knock-on. When the Saints player dropped the ball, he was clearly facing our posts and the ball went forward before it was regathered. Shenton's knock-on resulting in a scrum to Saints - mystifying as I don't believe any Cas player got close enough to the pass to get a hand to it. Calling the last tackle after the ball had been played was a terrible mistake and whilst people may say it's up to the players to count them, the vast majority rely on that call of "Last" from the referee as they're concentrating on other aspects of the game. That would've been extremely frustrating for the players. The seven tackle set for Saints winning try was a result of the tackle count being wiped after an attempted pass bounced back of Chase's arm whilst he was attempting to effect a tackle. He never played at the ball and the count shouldn't have been wiped. There's a lot of talk about the Respect Policy and I suspect Matterson may have some explaining to do after his post-match comments, but in reality he is right. I've always been taught that respect is something that has to be earned rather than simply offered on a plate; yet here we are week in, week out being expected to offer respect in the face of what can only be described as complete inconsistency. This is a full-time, professional, collision sport. It's rough and it's tough and it's very easy for players, coaches and fans to become frustrated when the laws and operational rules aren't being enforced in the same manner accross the board. If you consider the refereeing appointments we've had this season, less than half our games have been controlled by a full-time official. There are actually four very good, experienced, consistent referees in the competition at the moment but we've only had these for three of our eleven games so far. If Super League is going to improve as a competition (3-second play the balls and all that) and become as fast-flowing as the NRL; then the teams that play that kind of game need to be allowed to play it. Yesterday was an example of the pace at which all Super League games should be played. Friday was an example not only of how embarassingly and shambolically we can surrender a comfortable lead against the poorest side in the league (oh yes they are and by some margin!), but also of how games can be levelled by the weaker team slowing the game down and being allowed to get away with it. We've seen it a fair few times this season now (versus Wakefield, Catalans, Bradford, Crusaders, Hull) and there's no wonder the players and coach are getting frustrated.

First things first, nobody can question the committment of the players yesterday - that was one of our best performances of the season against one of the best and most creative sides in the league. The game was fast flowing, entertaining, exciting and overall a great spectacle. I was gutted to lose, but clearly not as much as the players were - they deserved to get something out of that game and Terry Matterson's post-match comments are spot on. If Danny Orr said what he's alleged to have said to the referee, then it was wrong but who can blame him? The level of frustration from not only yesterday's game, but a number of recent games must be proving difficult to keep a lid on the emotions. The only 50:50 we got yesterday was the conversion where the touch judges disagreed. As for the others: I've no idea how Saints second try wasn't a knock-on. When the Saints player dropped the ball, he was clearly facing our posts and the ball went forward before it was regathered. Shenton's knock-on resulting in a scrum to Saints - mystifying as I don't believe any Cas player got close enough to the pass to get a hand to it. Calling the last tackle after the ball had been played was a terrible mistake and whilst people may say it's up to the players to count them, the vast majority rely on that call of "Last" from the referee as they're concentrating on other aspects of the game. That would've been extremely frustrating for the players. The seven tackle set for Saints winning try was a result of the tackle count being wiped after an attempted pass bounced back of Chase's arm whilst he was attempting to effect a tackle. He never played at the ball and the count shouldn't have been wiped. There's a lot of talk about the Respect Policy and I suspect Matterson may have some explaining to do after his post-match comments, but in reality he is right. I've always been taught that respect is something that has to be earned rather than simply offered on a plate; yet here we are week in, week out being expected to offer respect in the face of what can only be described as complete inconsistency. This is a full-time, professional, collision sport. It's rough and it's tough and it's very easy for players, coaches and fans to become frustrated when the laws and operational rules aren't being enforced in the same manner accross the board. If you consider the refereeing appointments we've had this season, less than half our games have been controlled by a full-time official. There are actually four very good, experienced, consistent referees in the competition at the moment but we've only had these for three of our eleven games so far. If Super League is going to improve as a competition (3-second play the balls and all that) and become as fast-flowing as the NRL; then the teams that play that kind of game need to be allowed to play it. Yesterday was an example of the pace at which all Super League games should be played. Friday was an example not only of how embarassingly and shambolically we can surrender a comfortable lead against the poorest side in the league (oh yes they are and by some margin!), but also of how games can be levelled by the weaker team slowing the game down and being allowed to get away with it. We've seen it a fair few times this season now (versus Wakefield, Catalans, Bradford, Crusaders, Hull) and there's no wonder the players and coach are getting frustrated.

Re: You should win ... : Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:11 am  

mdean wrote:

I think there were some bad calls and I haven't seen Terry's comments after the match yet, but in reality I think we had enough ball and enough quality to win, but we didn't. The 5th tackle thing, whether the ref signalled it or not, I rather think it is our own game managements responsibility to know, rather than wait for the ref to tell us it is the last?
We are in a wobble, we have surpassed our expectations in the first 8 games and now it comes down to if we believe enough that we are a top 6 side or if we allow ourselves to believe we were in a false position - the Quins, Wakey and Saints games were all mental, not physical and not refereeing problems..... The bubble of considence needs to come back.
In my view the game changer was when Danny on the 4th play went for a miracle inside ball the Mathers under too much pressure, the percentage play there is to find the floor and go again with a quick play of the ball at a disrupted defensive line..... That said Danny was brilliant yesterday and on another day Mathers pouches it, straight in under the posts and game over.....

It doesn't get any easier this week with Leeds, but we need to just believe a little bit more and trust ourselves to be strong enough if we play our own game.

I agree to a certain extent but I was appraising Bentham's performance and that was an example of him not doing his job properly.