Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:10 pm  

oldladyrhino wrote:

A few observations to go along side Seth's and other's - The salary cap does have huge influence in terms of pool of top class players available to NRL v SL. Anyone who has spent time in Oz knows that Saturday mornings you will see all green spaces around in the suburbs are sports facilities and are full of youngsters enjoying a session of some sport training, skills sessions etc.- all year round! Parents spend their weekends ferrying kids to and fro. If not on these green bits then they are on the beach doing something else athletic. The kids are not ploughing through mud, freezing their little bums off, crying with pain when they get kicked, get a clod in the eye etc. Our kids are great and our parents, who do stand on the touchline shivering, are great BUT we can never compete with the conditions that our youngsters grow up in, learn skills and tactics in etc, and if they make it to the top in SL it is a special thing. In Oz it is not so surprising. In the UK the majority of youngsters, especially south of Yorkshire, of course, are probably either still in bed, playing with their phones or ipads or their interest in sport is confined to the overpaid, shamsters chasing a round ball around. This country's obsession with soccer, the size of the crowds, the vast amount of money invested in advertising, players, TV rights, the high focus on any related story etc etc is staggeringly incomprehensible. The virtual ignoring of RL, by comparison, is another factor.
Generally we are not on a level playing field with NRL except for the passion and desire shown by our best and most talented. Sadly Saints forgot that last night and KC's delusion probably added to that. He did, after all, look and sound as if he was about to open up at the Car Boot Sale!

Agree with much of above and points by Seth and fair chunks of points by Andy. A large part of producing star players like thurston and deeper overall quality is a numbers game. Apologies in advance , if I have the below numbers wrong but recollect someone telling me recently that the number of registered 15/16 year olds playing in Aus is over ten times higher than UK. Approx 25,000 versus 2,000. As others have said our potential thurston are probably in Man city academy along with for example the sons of Kylie L and mcGillvary from giants. Mal Reilly played football until. 16/17 then played RL. these days he would never have worn an RL shirt. Sadly, I have no particular solutions

Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:57 pm  

Having watched the NRL version of Sam Tomkins crumble under the high bomb last night, I hope the management at Leeds have taken note. Our kicking game has never been one of the best despite our success, and if it's as bad as it was last week, I.e non existent, we're in for a long night tomorrow. Seeing Watkins die with the ball on the 6th tackle on our first set and watching Delaney tasked with a last tackle kick was indicative of how poor our options were last week. I'd like to see more kicking from our lot tomorrow, whether it be 40/20 attempts, rockets up into the dark Yorkshire night, or testing kicks along the ground into the in goal or cross kicks for our wingers to compete for. A physical battle is one we're never gonna win, a good kicking game and clever tactics will always be our best chance of success. Fingers crossed we have a bit of luck and they don't hit top form.

Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:22 pm  

leeds owl wrote:

Having watched the NRL version of Sam Tomkins crumble under the high bomb last night, I hope the management at Leeds have taken note. Our kicking game has never been one of the best despite our success, and if it's as bad as it was last week, I.e non existent, we're in for a long night tomorrow. Seeing Watkins die with the ball on the 6th tackle on our first set and watching Delaney tasked with a last tackle kick was indicative of how poor our options were last week. I'd like to see more kicking from our lot tomorrow, whether it be 40/20 attempts, rockets up into the dark Yorkshire night, or testing kicks along the ground into the in goal or cross kicks for our wingers to compete for. A physical battle is one we're never gonna win, a good kicking game and clever tactics will always be our best chance of success. Fingers crossed we have a bit of luck and they don't hit top form.

The NRL's version of Tomkins? It was the first game Ferguson had ever played at fullback. In contrast NQ's fb Coote is really solid under the high ball. Not saying it shouldn't be part of our tactics, but the lessons you can learn by comparing one team to another are minimal.

Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:47 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

As I said earlier Leeds will get beat by a team that will do the basics more accurately and faster than Leeds can - that should not be that hard to coach into talented youngsters. Unfortunately the junior amateur game is all about winning and not about skill development. We have players in an elite competition that can't pass - Hardaker is MOS yet he struggles to pass at all never mind accurately.

Agree with that and with everything that AG said. It isn't that hard to coach the basics into youngsters. It just takes time and a wildly different setup and environment to that which currently is in place in the amateur game.
As you say the basics aren't being taught.

In my humble opinion, the amateur game is failing Rugby League in every aspect.

Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:33 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote: Have they not won the last 6 WCC challenge games or is that an illusion - its 2012 since a SL club won a game in this format - so let's try and add some perspective and not ancient history - what happened in 2015/16 is far more relevant than what happened in 2012 would you not agree. No they haven't won the last 6 WCC games. They've won the last 3, which is frustrating enough although one of those was a measly 4 point win over Leeds. Sal Paradise wrote: You are already making you excuses - so I would suggest a case of kettle and pot here!! I'd suggest you look up what the phrase "pot and kettle" means before you use it again. But anyway, hoping for a win but predicting a probable defeat against the NRL champions when almost half your first team's missing isn't an excuse and if said NRL team came over with that many players out they've be accused of not taking the game seriously, by you and Wiliam "stuck in the past" Eve to name but two. If Leeds had their first choice 17 out and beat a NQL team missing 7+ first choice players you and that sad old troll would be the first ones on here belittling the win. Sal Paradise wrote: The last time we played the Aussies in a game that really mattered they beat us at Wembley in WC. I think you're getting confused, unless you're now claiming the 4N doesn't matter? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/29798697 Like I said, finger tips... That hardly backs up your earlier post about how much better the super duper Aussies are does it... Sal Paradise wrote: Unlike you I see some pleasure in seeing a sportsman that is right at the very pinnacle of the game - if Lionel Messi was playing against Leeds Utd - unlikely I know - I would go and watch and I have no interest in soccer whatsoever. Great players are what sport is about, its what creates interest and drives participation - ignore their importance but I would say you are wrong to do so. Much rather admire a truly great player than get excited about one that is a pale imitation of the real deal. Wow. Do you realise just how much of a patronising **** that makes you sound? Of course i'm looking forward to watching JT do his thing but there's still a trophy up for grabs so i'm there to support my team first and foremost, however much the odds are stacked against them. I could care less about Football so no, I wouldn't go watch Leeds UTD even if Messi was there. Sorry if that makes me a lesser person than you. And please do tell... Who's this "pale imitation of the real deal" you're referring to? .

Sal Paradise wrote: Have they not won the last 6 WCC challenge games or is that an illusion - its 2012 since a SL club won a game in this format - so let's try and add some perspective and not ancient history - what happened in 2015/16 is far more relevant than what happened in 2012 would you not agree. No they haven't won the last 6 WCC games. They've won the last 3, which is frustrating enough although one of those was a measly 4 point win over Leeds. Sal Paradise wrote: You are already making you excuses - so I would suggest a case of kettle and pot here!! I'd suggest you look up what the phrase "pot and kettle" means before you use it again. But anyway, hoping for a win but predicting a probable defeat against the NRL champions when almost half your first team's missing isn't an excuse and if said NRL team came over with that many players out they've be accused of not taking the game seriously, by you and Wiliam "stuck in the past" Eve to name but two. If Leeds had their first choice 17 out and beat a NQL team missing 7+ first choice players you and that sad old troll would be the first ones on here belittling the win. Sal Paradise wrote: The last time we played the Aussies in a game that really mattered they beat us at Wembley in WC. I think you're getting confused, unless you're now claiming the 4N doesn't matter? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/29798697 Like I said, finger tips... That hardly backs up your earlier post about how much better the super duper Aussies are does it... Sal Paradise wrote: Unlike you I see some pleasure in seeing a sportsman that is right at the very pinnacle of the game - if Lionel Messi was playing against Leeds Utd - unlikely I know - I would go and watch and I have no interest in soccer whatsoever. Great players are what sport is about, its what creates interest and drives participation - ignore their importance but I would say you are wrong to do so. Much rather admire a truly great player than get excited about one that is a pale imitation of the real deal. Wow. Do you realise just how much of a patronising **** that makes you sound? Of course i'm looking forward to watching JT do his thing but there's still a trophy up for grabs so i'm there to support my team first and foremost, however much the odds are stacked against them. I could care less about Football so no, I wouldn't go watch Leeds UTD even if Messi was there. Sorry if that makes me a lesser person than you. And please do tell... Who's this "pale imitation of the real deal" you're referring to? .

Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:44 pm  

William Eve wrote:

Give me ET, Lyons, Hunt, Grothe, Currie, Izzard, Schoey, Hanley, etc over the tedium of Sinny, Burrow, Peacock, Leuluai, Hardaker etc any day of the week along with August to May seasons, proper genuine Kangaroo and Kiwi tours including games against the likes of PNG.

Super League is crap and has ruined the sport.

Sad, bitter old man in harking back to the "good old days" when "I were a lad" and "everything was better" - SHOCK.

You're a walking, talking cliche William. The game's moved on, if you don't like it then go find yourself a new hobby but please do us a favour and stfu. Go get yourself an allotment or something... I hear they're popular with the old folks.

Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:48 pm  

I agree with some of what William says and disagree with other bits. But it wasn't SL that ruined the sport. It was the 15-20 years prior to it that nearly killed the sport and something that we're still recovering from.

Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:37 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Its the major reason why I am going - we seldom get the opportunity to see the very best players in the flesh. In Thurston you have the very best and in Matt Scott another really top player that I am looking forward to watching. Perhaps if you opened your mind to the game as a whole and not let it solely revolve around Leeds you might have a more rounded view on some matters.

"Rounded view" coming from somebody going to watch one or two players in what is TEAM sport. I go to watch TEAM performances not individuals. Yes afterwards we can highlight and praise the things a certain player did but it's a TEAM sport for me when I watch it.

Sal Paradise wrote:

As you seldom actually attend a game you hardly in a position to criticise the rationale of those who do

I go to plenty thanks, maybe you go to more games than me but maybe that's because you've got so little else going on in your life that allows you the freedom to go

Sal Paradise wrote:

Technically the Aussies are so far ahead of us in the positions that matter i.e. 1,6,7,9,13 - which is why your point about Galloway, Falloon, Moa etc is nonsense.

No it's spot on. Enough players of ALL positions have come over and failed or just looked OK at best in the past that it goes to show a lot of it is in the heads of goo goo eyed guys like yourself. Problem is you'll point to certain ones in those pivot positions to try and make a point and ignore others......was the previous Hull HB Aussie combo of Holdsworth and Miller as good as their current English HB combination just one example.

Sal Paradise wrote:

It is obvious - even Stevie Wonder can see it - they are better physically prepared this is demonstrated virtually every time these games are played also in internationals that matter.

It isn't about shitting themselves - sometimes the opposition are far superior and if they have come with the correct mind set i.e. this is bit more than a training run, isn't a lot you can do. Especially now the Aussies have started to take it semi-serious.

Saints can be very hit and miss but it maybe OK to have a slow loose forward at 6 in SL it just doesn't work against faster more technically adept teams.

If these games were played in Australia in April it would be even more embarrassing. If North Queensland are anything close to top form on Sunday the Saints result will look good by comparison. They have been here for a week so they will no excuse. McDermott's interview suggested he thinks something bad was coming over the hill his body language was terrible

Thing is no one is saying the top Australian club sides aren't better. It's the foolish idea that anything other than Australian must be deemed sh*t.

Irony is, is that obviously the players in the amateur game aren't of the same quality as those in SL, yet you've praised William for being a big supporter of the amateur game.......hypocritical of him to say SL is unwatchable for him because the players aren't as good as the NRL players yet enjoy watching amateur players who aren't as good as SL players.

Re: WCC : Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:45 pm  

William Eve wrote:

Give me ET, Lyons, Hunt, Grothe, Currie, Izzard, Schoey, Hanley, etc over the tedium of Sinny, Burrow, Peacock, Leuluai, Hardaker etc any day of the week along with August to May seasons, proper genuine Kangaroo and Kiwi tours including games against the likes of PNG.

Super League is crap and has ruined the sport.

And I pretty much guarantee back in the 80's whilst you were enjoying those days they'll have been some old miserable gits b*tching and moaning about how much better RL was back in 60's......your comments say much more about you than the state of RL.

Re: WCC : Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:33 am  

ThePrinter wrote:

"Rounded view" coming from somebody going to watch one or two players in what is TEAM sport. I go to watch TEAM performances not individuals. Yes afterwards we can highlight and praise the things a certain player did but it's a TEAM sport for me when I watch it.

I go to plenty thanks, maybe you go to more games than me but maybe that's because you've got so little else going on in your life that allows you the freedom to go

No it's spot on. Enough players of ALL positions have come over and failed or just looked OK at best in the past that it goes to show a lot of it is in the heads of goo goo eyed guys like yourself. Problem is you'll point to certain ones in those pivot positions to try and make a point and ignore others......was the previous Hull HB Aussie combo of Holdsworth and Miller as good as their current English HB combination just one example.

Thing is no one is saying the top Australian club sides aren't better. It's the foolish idea that anything other than Australian must be deemed sh*t.

Irony is, is that obviously the players in the amateur game aren't of the same quality as those in SL, yet you've praised William for being a big supporter of the amateur game.......hypocritical of him to say SL is unwatchable for him because the players aren't as good as the NRL players yet enjoy watching amateur players who aren't as good as SL players.

You attend so few games I would be embarrassed to call myself a RL supporter - so don't try and demean those of us who spend our hard earned on supporting the team home and away despite the opportunity cost of doing so!!

In a game there are a few bits of individual brilliance - that is what you remember about a game - what do you remember from watching the Saints semi on TV - I bet it was Sinfield's 40/20 that is why we keep going to games - small nuances of individual brilliance!!

I am sure you have watched the last two WCS games on the TV as you will the game tomorrow - one thing even you should have noticed is the best players in the key positions seldom ever get to SL - have any of the starting 1.6.7.9.13 of Brisbane, Roosters or NQ ever played in SL?

No one is suggesting the SL clubs are rubbish - but even Stevie Wonder can see - there is a significant gap in standard between the NRL and SL - about 30 points if the last two games are anything to go by - the fact you fail to acknowledge that says much about your understanding of the game.

William is a great supporter of the amateur game - it has many faults but without it you would not have the likes of Sinfield, McGuire and Peacock - just think how much better they would be if the amateur game had the resources and support its enthusiasm deserves. William recognises how hard these clubs work so he attends a host of amateur games - pity you haven't got enough about you to do likewise. Not much chance given you can be bothered to attend the games of a team you claim to support so passionately