: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:29 pm  

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

I've allowed what I saw of the game to digest in my brain so i can post of of the sensible bit, not the frustrated bit.

There are lessons from the game that need to be learnt. Reassuringly, we've looked comfortable against most other SL sides but inferior to St Helens. Thankfully we have 6 months to get it right before Old Trafford.

True

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

We need to be more expansive. The 'drive it down the middle' game didn't work today, as it often doesn't when Peacock & the forwards don't have a good game.

Not against Saints we dont. Saints are probably the only team who have the pace to match us outwide. We need to batter them down the middle to drag them in then use our pace in the backs to trouble them. If we go wide too early we try miracle passes and plays which end up giving away possession, which is a disaster against a team as good as Saints.

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

When playing from the POTB the backs are standing far too flat. This prevents them moving onto the bal at pace as Saints backs did, giving the opposition defence much more time to organise themsleves.

Absolute rubbish, the backs are stood very deep this season, the forwards IMO are the ones who are too flat and getting the ball stood still.

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

I think Disco is the better hooker for this, as Buderus' passes seemed to be very high & loopy, meaning the reciever had to slow down to collect.

Absolute bollax. Buderus' distribution from acting half is much better than Diskins.

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

We need to be looking at tackling lower than we do.

Cr@p. This isnt Union where no fecker can pass a ball or offload.

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

When we brought a saints player to an immediate hault it was usually Burrow or McGuire, tackling at waist height, and using the opposition player's momentum to carry them onto the floor.

We tackle low and Graham, Cayless, Puletua etc will take the p!ss with offloads, not to mention quicker PTB's.

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

Sinny needs to step up (thought he was very good on sunday) and direct the play. Going short side to JJB in the second half when we had an overlap on the right was an obvious wrong decision. Danny is very quick, but he is not a midfield general.

No he's not a midfield general, but he's still a stand-off, and a bloody good one, not simply a support player.

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

We also need to be looking at Discipline & temperament of the players.
Stay calm, don't develop white line fever and don't become tryshy.

WTF?

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

For the sets we had close to the saints line we scored far too few points.
Similarly, set completio needs to be higher. The boys don't need to look for the magic ball every time, simply move away from the potb, get over the gain line and keep the ball.

Agreed.

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

The final point is kicking. Everyone who does, or may, play on the wing needs to spend a lot of time under the high ball so they are confident going for a bomb against bigger guys. This basically means Sinny, Danny & pocket monkey spending 30 mins or so every training session putting up balls to Superman, Gibbo, Smith, Hall, Donald & Watkins.

Thats a good idea. Im sure Sinfield, McGuire and Burrow currently spend no time practicing kicking to the wingers and our wingers spend no time practicing catching.

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

Connected to this is our kicking out of hand. There is no point putting a garryowen

What the hell is one of those? Do you mean a high kick?

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

up for the opposition fullback if no-one is chasing the kick, same with downfield kicks. The opposition are, suprisingly, professional footballers so will be able to catch an uncontested ball. Pressuring the take means they are a) much more likely to make a mistake, and b)much less likely to make ground after taking it.
Downfield kicks & clearances also need to be chased (i.e. sprinted after, rather than just jogging up the pitch) to prevent territory gain by the opposition. I only saw us properly chase a ball once, but when we did (and tbf it was Danny on his own) we forced saints into a dropout.

You realise you could have just said we need to chase kicks better and it would have meant the same?

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

These are simple things that can be easily applied, and bluey should be looking at in the next few weeks.

Send him a letter and tell him. He's obviously overlooked these basics of the game.

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

and as an addition, can we please send Danny, Sinny, Webb & Burrow to train with Leigh Hinton & Jason Strange over at Carnegie. We only ever seem to make 20-30 m on touch kicks. Those two (Carnegie fullback & flyhalf) are putting into into the opposition 10 from the halfway line. If our players can learn to do this, it will give us a big advantage when the opposition are penalised.

I wouldnt want our lads taking lessons from players as unskilled as a Union fullback and flyhalf.

: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:25 pm  

BigRob wrote:

Not against Saints we dont. Saints are probably the only team who have the pace to match us outwide.

Leeds must have a pretty ordinary back line, then. This is arguably the slowest group of backs Saints have had in the last twenty years.

wellens not got any pace : Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:54 pm  

After the world cup, am i the only person who thinks wellens cant run,after watching the game on TV it made me wonder why we never tried to show up his lack of pace .two years ago in the grand final donald opend his legs and it looked like wellens was stood still

: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:19 pm  

I may have been brought up watching union, I may still enjoy it when it's played well. However that's doesn't mean I'm not an RL fan, and despite your prejudice it doesn't mean RU concepts cannot be applied to RL without success.

there's a difference between deep & steep. They may well be quite a way back but they aren't in steep line, meaning they have to generate pace off the mark, rather than take the bal at pace & run the line. This is what we saw saints do yesterday. If we can keep the boys calm we can go wide & not lose possession, as saints did.

However, as mentioned earlier the present game plan should still be practiced for wet conditions, which always give us an edge.

Several times yesterday the first reciever was having to jump and/or step backwards to recieve the pass. Disco's went straight into the bread basket.

Tackling low, when done properly, prevents an offload as the player goes straight over, ball carrying arm hits ground=tackle completed. I'd bet if we had some stats Burrow (who has no choice but to tackle low) is our best tackle completer.

Based on the amount of times our players are dodgy under the high ball I'd say it needs some work, particularly with Donald & Hall.

And while you say these players are unskilled, you also call union 'kick & clap'. Presumably they're quite good at these. It's regular in union for nominated kickers to punt from inside their own 22 to the opposition 22, and for goals to be kicked from the halfway line. I'd struggle to recall any RL player doing this.

And as for unskilled-would you say Dan Carter and Jonathan Davies were unskilled?

: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:39 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Leeds must have a pretty ordinary back line, then. This is arguably the slowest group of backs Saints have had in the last twenty years.

The only difference in your threequarter line on Sunday from last year was Gilmour for Talau. In terms of pace there's not much between them.

How do you quantify your outlandish soundbite with that?

: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:44 pm  

BigRob wrote:

Absolute bollax.

That would of sufficed in reply, it really would.

I think it's an archived piece that gets reproduced at some point each season which is why it bears little or no resemblance to actual current events.

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

Several times yesterday

I think I understand your problem now. The actual game was played on Sunday rather than the fantasy game who were imagining on Monday.

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

And while you say these players are unskilled, you also call union 'kick & clap'. Presumably they're quite good at these.

I think Union players are exceptional at the latter of those skills. Pretty good with the hip, hip hoorays as well.

And on a serious note Rugby League is not Rugby Union and the vast majority of Rugby League fans would probably prefer it to stay that way.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:03 am  

From what I've seen I suspect McGuire could be a far better stand off than he sometimes appears. It's probably no coincidence that he can look a bit clueless playing for England when he basically stays on the one side all the time for Leeds and isn't the main decision maker. Even without changing anything else I do think he could run a straighter line even if he does stay on the right, and by doing so keep more options open.

My feeling is that close to the line Sinfield may be better out wide, with Burrow/McGuire more central, as they would be against forwards, and Sinfield is probably the only one of the three capable of taking a tackle and getting the ball away without being smashed in the process.

I do agree that hooker makes a difference as well, but Sts play is not all down to Cunningham. It will be interesting to see what difference Buderus makes if he gets fully fit and integrated in the team.

Re: wellens not got any pace : Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:59 am  

rhinos12497 wrote:

After the world cup, am i the only person who thinks wellens cant run,after watching the game on TV it made me wonder why we never tried to show up his lack of pace .two years ago in the grand final donald opend his legs and it looked like wellens was stood still

Webb held him up on the inside, la.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:02 am  

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

Tackling low, when done properly, prevents an offload as the player goes straight over, ball carrying arm hits ground=tackle completed. I'd bet if we had some stats Burrow (who has no choice but to tackle low) is our best tackle completer.

And lands straight on his front, allowing Roby or Cunningham an extremely quick play the ball, from which they cause havoc, Roby especially. Trust me Union and League are two very different games, and tackling technique is perhaps at the forefront of the differences.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:08 am  

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote: I'd bet if we had some stats Burrow (who has no choice but to tackle low) is our best tackle completer. http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009 Keith Senior 77 tackles 2 Missed tackles Rob Burrow 45 Tackles 9 Missed tackles It was close though.

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote: I'd bet if we had some stats Burrow (who has no choice but to tackle low) is our best tackle completer. http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009 Keith Senior 77 tackles 2 Missed tackles Rob Burrow 45 Tackles 9 Missed tackles It was close though.