: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:54 am  

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

I may have been brought up watching union, I may still enjoy it when it's played well. However that's doesn't mean I'm not an RL fan, and despite your prejudice it doesn't mean RU concepts cannot be applied to RL without success.

It's not a prejudice thanks, I've played and coached Union as well as League. They have their differences but in general the Union backs cannot run, pass or tackle as well their League counterparts. Which explains why a fat lad like me who would only be useful at prop in a League team was playing inside centre for York RU.

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

there's a difference between deep & steep. They may well be quite a way back but they aren't in steep line, meaning they have to generate pace off the mark, rather than take the bal at pace & run the line.

No it doesnt. You're mistaking the shape of the attacking line for people getting the ball stood still. Doesn't matter whether you're deep or flat if you get the ball stood still you're gonna have problems.

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

Several times yesterday the first reciever was having to jump and/or step backwards to recieve the pass. Disco's went straight into the bread basket.

That may well be the problem, players shouldnt be catching it in the bread basket.
Im really starting to doubt whether you watched the game at all. Diskins distribution from acting half has always been a little dodgy, whereas I seriously doubt Buderus would have become NSW and Australia captain without being able to pass from acting half.

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

Tackling low, when done properly, prevents an offload as the player goes straight over, ball carrying arm hits ground=tackle completed. I'd bet if we had some stats Burrow (who has no choice but to tackle low) is our best tackle completer.

No he's not and no it doesn't. Are you seriously suggesting that its harder to offload a ball when someone is around your legs than around your upper body? And if thats true how come every RL side in England and Australia tackles high?

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

Based on the amount of times our players are dodgy under the high ball I'd say it needs some work, particularly with Donald & Hall.

How many times is that? Hall was rubbish against Hull KR under the high ball but thats the only time I've noticed a problem this season and cant remember a particular problem last season.

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

And while you say these players are unskilled, you also call union 'kick & clap'.

Did i? I dont believe I've called union kick & clap. They are unskilled compared to their League counterparts.

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

Presumably they're quite good at these. It's regular in union for nominated kickers to punt from inside their own 22 to the opposition 22, and for goals to be kicked from the halfway line. I'd struggle to recall any RL player doing this.

Cheers for that I hadnt noticed all the kicking in Union games. The problem with your argument is that its a different game and these unskilled players who can do little else other than kick are kicking under different circumstances.
Sinfield's kicking in the last 2 Grand Finals has been better than most Union flyhalf's IMO.

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

And as for unskilled-would you say Dan Carter and Jonathan Davies were unskilled?

No I wouldn't, but since you could only come up with 2, one of whom played RL and retired a decade ago then that would back up my assertion that in general Union backs are unskilled compared to League backs.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:19 am  

Its a shame that this has degenerated into a RL/Union boreathon.

Tykes points re passing and tackling are well made. On numerous occassions on Sunday the ball was slung out at varying heights in the general direction of a player, rather than to where the player actually was, causing us to check and loose momentum.

Its a fairly simple excercise. You attempt to pass to the guy's hands.

The first tackling lessons you learn in either codes is that you tackle around the legs, or drive your shoulder into the ribs. How many times in RL have you witnessed 2 or 3 guys standing upright, wrestling with an opposing player only for him to continue making yards forward, prior to slipping the ball out? Ali Lauatiti and David Soloman are perfect examples of players who can take advantage of poor technique.

Ping pong kicking in Union is boring, but Union backs appear to be way ahead in the length they can achieve , and the two 40/20's that Saints had against us shows the value of improving this facet of our game.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:43 am  

BillyRhino wrote:

Its a shame that this has degenerated into a RL/Union boreathon.

Perhaps if he'd stuck to that type of analysis he might have been taken more seriously. He didn't and so he wasn't.

The only thing he missed out was recycling, phases, a rolling maul and line outs.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:54 pm  

LS16_Rhino wrote:

FFS – we’re top of the league, current reigning champions and run our nearest rivals to two very close defeats – why the fook do we need to change anything???

totally right mate, plus we havent played well in both these games.

personaly i think the score lines in the last 2 games didnt really tell the full story but they are the scores non the less.

i have no doubt when we play well against saints we can beat em. both times saints have beat us this year 1 of their players had the best game they have ever had in a saints shirt.(flannery and wilkin) thats what they have needed to beat us. we havent performed to that level and thats what we need to do.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:00 pm  

sgtwilko wrote:

totally right mate, plus we havent played well in both these games.

personaly i think the score lines in the last 2 games didnt really tell the full story but they are the scores non the less.

i have no doubt when we play well against saints we can beat em. both times saints have beat us this year 1 of their players had the best game they have ever had in a saints shirt.(flannery and wilkin) thats what they have needed to beat us. we havent performed to that level and thats what we need to do.

Spot on mate - don't get me wrong though, there are a couple of things we could do with improving on but no need to change our style of play at all.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:25 pm  

nowhere close TVOC.

I accept the point about giving Roby/Cunningham etc. a quick potb from the tackle. But when the players go high and either a) fail to make the tackle, or b) latch on but lose 5 yards in making it costs us ground.

If our kicking length was better we'd have more options to attack. If every penalty within our half was being put onto the opposition 20, and every one within their half into the 5 metre, we'd score more points as we'd have more sets on the opposition line. Kicking to touch and only making 10m isn't good enough.

I may have the wrong words, but i think we were too shallow a line to be effective on sunday. If the backs stand steeper it gives them 2-3 yards to accelerate before taking the ball at each pass. It also causes the opposition defence to bunch in the centre, giving space to the wingmen (as we saw when saints pulled a training ground move on us twice, using this exact technique).

The bread basket (I'm presuming we agree this is waist height) is exactly where a player should be taking it. Kneck/head high passes are what loses ground & costs us ball. There were several overcooked passes on sunday, and these need cutting out. Buderus wasn't the only one, but he seemed to me to be the main culprit.

I'd disagree that RU players are unskilled, the skills require are different. We as a team do not hinge arount McGuire, we have multipled playmakers who control the dynamics of the game. An RU standoff is the fulcrum of the side, so must be a lot less specialist in what he can do.

: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:52 pm  

Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan wrote:

nowhere close TVOC.

And you're even less close if you think I'm the one that's debating any of this with you.

I'm the one taking the piss.

Re: wellens not got any pace : Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:07 pm  

rhinos12497 wrote:

After the world cup, am i the only person who thinks wellens cant run

Bloody hell. Did it take you until the world cup to notice that? Saints fans have known it since he first joined the club. We don't care. Know why? He does everything else (bar kicking) fecking good. And how good has he been this season for us? He's been fantastic.

Re: wellens not got any pace : Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:15 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Bloody hell. Did it take you until the world cup to notice that? Saints fans have known it since he first joined the club. We don't care. Know why? He does everything else (bar kicking) fecking good. And how good has he been this season for us? He's been fantastic.

wellens is a real yard stick of how good the game is over here in terms of having a full skill set to get a game.

in the nrl he simply wouldnt get a game. they have 16 fullbacks better than him. and thats before you switch lockyer, ingles, hayne, gidley and perrit. over here he still looks like he could keep his international shirt!!

me and mi old man have just decided we are going to 2010 4 nations!! god help us if he's playing then

: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:43 am  

G1 wrote:

The only difference in your threequarter line on Sunday from last year was Gilmour for Talau. In terms of pace there's not much between them.

How do you quantify your outlandish soundbite with that?

I think Gardner is the only one with good enough pace, although Gilmour seems quicker than Talau for me. Back in the day of Lyon, Albert, Sullivan, Quirk (ahem) we did have some pace but I agree with original poster that this is slowest in some time.

I remember a coupld of seasons back at Headingley when the game was close at half time (about 12-16?), but in the second half Leeds scored some fast long range tries (Lee Smith with two?) and despite him breaking the line near to his own twenty, we couldn't get near him.

My fear when playing Leeds in recent seasons is that you make a break and have too much pacy support (Burrow, McGuire, Senior, Smith) for us to catch all of them.