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Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:12 am  
ThePrinter wrote:
Whatever happened to Simon Worrall?

Went back to RU iirc.
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Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:13 am  
tvoc wrote:
Gaskell at St Helens is one example but so is Kevin Brown at Wigan - all depends on your point of view.

McGuire at 7 and 1st receiver with Sutcliffe at 6 is Leeds' most likely looking combination when available. If McGuire continues to be unavailable for chunks of the season then going forward the number one priority is to find a quality number 7 - Burrow nor no pace Lilley need apply. Sutcliffe is no Sinfield at the moment but he has the potential to be a good player with a bit of patience, good coaching and support around him on the field, IMO.

Completely agree re-Sutty but i also think there's plenty if potential with Lilley.
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Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:28 am  
RHINO-MARK wrote:
So you saying because we lost it proves Sutty didn't play well?


No I did not say this. However after a fantastic start to the season with the whole team in good form (in which Sutty figured at 6 when Sinny was injured) we then lost our way a bit without a win in 3 games while Sutty was at 6. Sinfield then replaced him and we got back to winning ways again. The reason I make this point is to challenge your suggestion and inference that Sutty deserved to keep the 6 spot and his good form was keeping Sinfield out and only injury prevented him remaining there which was not the case.


RHINO-MARK wrote:
He played well in more than 1 game at 6 & you'll also find thst when Sinfield was reintroduced to the team he even played spells at 9 so not as clear cut as you make out either.


I have never said Sutty hasn't played well. He has been a valued utility player over quite some time. The issue is whether he is a natural 6.

RHINO-MARK wrote:
Also just because you & "others" say as such it doesnt make it right that he wont be a 6 just like Burrow never been big enough Hall being clueless & Jjb too injury prone all of which were said early in their careers.


We are all only expressing opinions. Mine have been consistent over time and not based just on recent events. Because I sometimes offer a different opinion to the pack doesn't make me wrong either.

RHINO-MARK wrote:
If i got it wrong that he played exclusively at 6 till injured fair doos he was still in the 17 week in week out on merit.


I am not challenging Sutcliffe's place in the squad - just his position. Without a replacement for the Sinfield role our squad is unbalanced and we lack adequate cover in the halves when McGuire is unavailable as events have proven. This was predicted by some. If we had players capable of playing the pivot role at 13 or FB then it would be ok to play just a runner at 6. But IMO we need at least 2 creative pivots in the side.
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Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:31 am  
MS - From what I've seen (which I admit is not a great deal) Lilley appears to be a slower, non- tackling version of Paul McShane. I could only see him in the hooking role at Leeds but he'd have to improve his defence first, as ever just my opinion.

According to Wiki Simon Worrall continued to play League in the domestic French comp.
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Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:31 am  
son of headingley wrote:
Nice use of language, not showing any bias at all

Sutcliffe:
Sinfield:


But that is what happened.
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Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:32 am  
JC-Re 2 creative pivots i agree & i think GH has got the signing at 9 wrong hopefully he improves as for another creative pivot that does & should fall to Mags as the more exp HB imo.
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Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:37 am  
tvoc wrote:
MS - From what I've seen (which I admit is not a great deal) Lilley appears to be a slower, non- tackling version of Paul McShane. I could only see him in the hooking role at Leeds but he'd have to improve his defence first, as ever just my opinion.

According to Wiki Simon Worrall continued to play League in the domestic French comp.

Hmmm im sure whilst watching a Rhinos game back on sky SW was puctured in the crowd which was followed with EH saying he was plying his trade back in RU?
WRT JL having watched his Acadamy career i think he potentially could become a goid old scholl type 7 with a good varied kicking game ,very vocal & reads defences well but time will ultimately prove it.
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Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:40 am  
RHINO-MARK wrote:
JC-Re 2 creative pivots i agree & i think GH has got the signing at 9 wrong hopefully he improves as for another creative pivot that does & should fall to Mags as the more exp HB imo.


I know we would agree about something :wink:
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Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:44 am  
tvoc wrote:
Gaskell at St Helens is one example but so is Kevin Brown at Wigan - all depends on your point of view.


No, Brown was a very good player at Wigan also. Who replaced him? he still went to his next club and also put in quality performances. He has got better, but he always showed the quality at a young age, and that is the difference from what we are seeing with Sutcliffe. He has never really showed he is a stand off, and that is the argument. Not whether he can get better, or will he succeed in another position, but his ability in the stand off role. If the argument is it will take years, then he needs to play another position in the team to learn before they try him there again, because a championship chasing club can not wait around with poor performances for the player to get better. If he was showing some quality it would be different, but he isn't.
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Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:49 am  
Gotcha wrote:
I could quite easily label the same statement at you. I am well aware half backs take time to settle, however they also show they have the ability in the first place to warrant that settling period, and that they could do it in future. I have said this many times, and still never seen a post to refute it, there is no difference between Sutcliffe and Lee Gaskell at the same ages, they are like for like players completely. Gaskell however, had many better games in the halfs, and was the choice of porn for certain sky commentators. Howver, what is his level now? what position is he? Saints knew what they were doing, and for the right reason. Are you suggesting Saints would regret their decision?

We have had two or three half backs over the last decade who looked miles better than Sutcliffe, they were sent packing. Do the club regret it? I can't recall seeing your posts of not to write them off.


You might be able to level it but not label it, even then you're quite wrong. Gaskell and Sutcliffe were similar only in their rangy stance. Sutcliffe is a much bigger unit and has the strength that goes with it.

I suspect Gaskill's failure had more to do with his attitude than anything else but Saints wouldn't be the first SL club to have shut the door on someone based on short term aspirations.

We've produced one decent half back in the last ten years and at a time when there was no where for hm to go. In any event, I thought the club were wrong then and I bet they have regretted it since, in fact, probably for the last six weeks.

Your opinions are based on personal prejudice, you only have to look at your continued criticism of Burrow for evidence of that. You've written his value to the team off on about five separate occasions to my knowledge and been (noticed the correct use of the word) proved wrong every time.

Oh, and before you go off on one, Burrow was and never will be a creative half back. However, he was and still is, one of the best impact players in the game. IF he is used properly!
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