Re: Sam Walters : Tue May 09, 2023 12:08 pm  

chapylad wrote:

Is Hetherington solely in charge of recruitment? Serious question.
If so and with all due respect to the man he is probably not up to speed with how the game has changed and he might just be wanting players on the cheap.

I don't think you can say we are doing it on the cheap as we have been utilising both marquee spots since 2019. Has that investment been successful - certainly not. If the pruning of dead wood continues at the same pace as last year we'll have the opportunity to go on a Wire type recruitment drive for 2023. GH and Rohan will be under big pressure to get that right. On a general point it is easy to forget that the post 2017 wilderness years are not something that's unheard of in RL or other professionals sports. Wigan won the inaugural GF in 98 and had to wait 12 long years to do it again. Saints won the GF in 2006 and didn't lift the trophy again till 2013 and then had to wait till 2019 for their golden era to begin. That's one GF in 13 years. Look what happened to Bradford, look what happened to the great Widnes team of the late 80's and the great Hull teams of earlier in that decades. We'll come good again, and it will have been worth waiting for when it happens.

Re: Sam Walters : Tue May 09, 2023 12:35 pm  

ArthurClues wrote:

I don't think you can say we are doing it on the cheap as we have been utilising both marquee spots since 2019. Has that investment been successful - certainly not. If the pruning of dead wood continues at the same pace as last year we'll have the opportunity to go on a Wire type recruitment drive for 2023. GH and Rohan will be under big pressure to get that right. On a general point it is easy to forget that the post 2017 wilderness years are not something that's unheard of in RL or other professionals sports. Wigan won the inaugural GF in 98 and had to wait 12 long years to do it again. Saints won the GF in 2006 and didn't lift the trophy again till 2013 and then had to wait till 2019 for their golden era to begin. That's one GF in 13 years. Look what happened to Bradford, look what happened to the great Widnes team of the late 80's and the great Hull teams of earlier in that decades. We'll come good again, and it will have been worth waiting for when it happens.

Appreciate that AC.
I`m probably thinking of the most recent recruits such as Hooley, Roberts, McDonnell, Sangare and Lisone and possibly Olpherts who will not be costing us too much this season.

Re: Sam Walters : Tue May 09, 2023 12:51 pm  

chapylad wrote:

Appreciate that AC.
I`m probably thinking of the most recent recruits such as Hooley, Roberts, McDonnell, Sangare and Lisone and possibly Olpherts who will not be costing us too much this season.

No denying that cap wise we were in a real hole last season. The players that you mention are indicative of that. I'm just hoping that the next year the squad will have some genuine stardust sprinkled on it. It's badly needed.

Re: Sam Walters : Tue May 09, 2023 1:15 pm  

ArthurClues wrote:

I don't think you can say we are doing it on the cheap as we have been utilising both marquee spots since 2019. Has that investment been successful - certainly not. If the pruning of dead wood continues at the same pace as last year we'll have the opportunity to go on a Wire type recruitment drive for 2023. GH and Rohan will be under big pressure to get that right. On a general point it is easy to forget that the post 2017 wilderness years are not something that's unheard of in RL or other professionals sports. Wigan won the inaugural GF in 98 and had to wait 12 long years to do it again. Saints won the GF in 2006 and didn't lift the trophy again till 2013 and then had to wait till 2019 for their golden era to begin. That's one GF in 13 years. Look what happened to Bradford, look what happened to the great Widnes team of the late 80's and the great Hull teams of earlier in that decades. We'll come good again, and it will have been worth waiting for when it happens.

Totally agree, I do think our success with the 'Goldens' has turned some of our fans into being a bit entitled, its now more then ever that we need to as a club stick to a plan not make knee jerk reactions to a poor run of form, we might not win a thing for another 3-5 years but as you say that's not uncommon even for the big clubs.

Re: Sam Walters : Tue May 09, 2023 1:59 pm  

Some people are a bit entitled. For me its more a case of having watched the club almost fall to bits in slow motion, with predictable farce following bad decisions down the years. I think (hope) we've finally got the right coach in who can properly rebuild.

Despite the focus on the new signings - most of whom will be on very low wages in SL terms - its clearly our highest earners who again aren't doing it. How are Hooley, Olpherts, Roberts etc responsible for poor performances when they're not even playing? Look at our 1,6 and 7 and our more highly paid players such as Bentley, Tetevano etc before worrying about fringe squad players who were signed to add depth with the hope one or two make it longer term. You want to win stuff, you need a good spine and big money players to perform like they are worth it. Neither is true right now.

Re: Sam Walters : Tue May 09, 2023 2:14 pm  

nobody said they are responsible for bad performances. quite simply they were ridiculous signings because they are nowhere near good enough. why get rid of broadband who is better than all of them?

Re: Sam Walters : Tue May 09, 2023 2:29 pm  

christopher wrote:

Totally agree, I do think our success with the 'Goldens' has turned some of our fans into being a bit entitled, its now more then ever that we need to as a club stick to a plan not make knee jerk reactions to a poor run of form, we might not win a thing for another 3-5 years but as you say that's not uncommon even for the big clubs.

I think fans are entitled to expect that a club delivers value for money and that the team on the field justifies the monies spent on it. Not sure you could ever say that under the Agar coaching regime. Fans have an entitlement that the club can develop the cream of young talent it inherits from the amateur game and all the free hours given to get those kids to that level.

Nobody expects the team to win the GF every year but they do want to be entertained - the club is in the entertainment business after all. The do expect the team to play to an elite standard befitting full time athletes - can you honestly say the club has delivered this in the past few years?

Re: Sam Walters : Tue May 09, 2023 2:57 pm  

tad rhino wrote:

nobody said they are responsible for bad performances. quite simply they were ridiculous signings because they are nowhere near good enough. why get rid of broadband who is better than all of them?

Because Broadbent wanting to be first choice and he wouldn't have been that at Leeds.

He would have got as many games as those players you mention who are fringe backup players.

Re: Sam Walters : Tue May 09, 2023 3:01 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

I think fans are entitled to expect that a club delivers value for money and that the team on the field justifies the monies spent on it. Not sure you could ever say that under the Agar coaching regime. Fans have an entitlement that the club can develop the cream of young talent it inherits from the amateur game and all the free hours given to get those kids to that level.

Nobody expects the team to win the GF every year but they do want to be entertained - the club is in the entertainment business after all. The do expect the team to play to an elite standard befitting full time athletes - can you honestly say the club has delivered this in the past few years?

In the last few years probably not but we've won a CC final and had an amazing run into the GF last year.

Yet there are some fans wanting rid of the coach because of an inconsistent start to the season.

Agar was kept on far too long, we should have hired Smith before the start of 2022, however that wouldn't have helped the salary cap mess, which Smith had absolutely no chance of sorting before this season.

Re: Sam Walters : Tue May 09, 2023 3:20 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

I think fans are entitled to expect that a club delivers value for money and that the team on the field justifies the monies spent on it. Not sure you could ever say that under the Agar coaching regime. Fans have an entitlement that the club can develop the cream of young talent it inherits from the amateur game and all the free hours given to get those kids to that level.

Nobody expects the team to win the GF every year but they do want to be entertained - the club is in the entertainment business after all. The do expect the team to play to an elite standard befitting full time athletes - can you honestly say the club has delivered this in the past few years?

It's a matter of perspective, isn't it? As compared with the glory years there's been a big drop off, and 2018 and 19 were unquestionably poor. However since 2020 we've won the challenge Cup, finished consistently in the play offs and last year made the GF. I'm not sure how long you have supported the the club, but is more success than we managed in the 80's and pretty much the whole of the 90's.Elite is an interesting word - I would have thought by definition only a very small number could be considered elite in any era, so I would say it is unrealistic for the club to attain that standard all the time. Don't get me wrong, I do get massively disgruntled by some of the poor stuff I've seen us serve up at Headingley over the last few years, but I am confident it will come good sooner rather than later.