Re: Ryan Bailey : Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:58 am  

Wire Yed wrote:

His behaviour could be a separate thing, let's imagine it is.

Would you still come out and say you were suffering from depression, in this sport if you wasn't?
It's probably the 2nd hardest thing to admit behind being gay due to the merciless taunts of those that don't understand.

Yep - let's take the individual in this circumstance out of the equation...

Clearly it would be difficult, it's always difficult to admit when you've got a problem - particularly one of such a sensitive nature. Having said that though, whilst the banter and taunts can be ruthless at times, in every rugby team I've been involved with, there is also a deep mate-ship and support network that come together whenever one of their own is doing it tough (whether that be personal issues, form drops, injuries etc), so there is no need for it to be tough - I genuinely believe if someone has an issue of this sort, the first priority of the team would be to support their mate and do whatever they can to help - sure after time here will be banter, taunts, digs about it (and yes it can be brutal), but that's part of the team environment, I'd be disappointed if that didn't happen if it were me on the receiving end as it would mean I was being treat differently...

Going public with your struggles to the media is something entirely different - if it's done to encourage more people to speak up, then great - but again, the cynic in me also believes it is occasionally done to try and justify or reduce the consequences of ill-discipline.

Re: Ryan Bailey : Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:41 am  

Superted wrote:

Yep - let's take the individual in this circumstance out of the equation...

Clearly it would be difficult, it's always difficult to admit when you've got a problem - particularly one of such a sensitive nature. Having said that though, whilst the banter and taunts can be ruthless at times, in every rugby team I've been involved with, there is also a deep mate-ship and support network that come together whenever one of their own is doing it tough (whether that be personal issues, form drops, injuries etc), so there is no need for it to be tough - I genuinely believe if someone has an issue of this sort, the first priority of the team would be to support their mate and do whatever they can to help - sure after time here will be banter, taunts, digs about it (and yes it can be brutal), but that's part of the team environment, I'd be disappointed if that didn't happen if it were me on the receiving end as it would mean I was being treat differently...

Going public with your struggles to the media is something entirely different - if it's done to encourage more people to speak up, then great - but again, the cynic in me also believes it is occasionally done to try and justify or reduce the consequences of ill-discipline.

Complete nonsense. The ignorance and lack of support for Mental Illness in Men is unparalleled, and in employment more so. I would expect Bails to more hide behind a "Hard Bloke Front" to explain his behavior rather than admitting "Weakness" in a Mans Sport for Manly Men. A select few may have known prior to his announcement, but not many. When you suffer from Depression, you wear a Mask to hide your true self. This mask could be the Clown, the Hard Bloke, the Ladies Man, anything, but it's not the real person, and it's a coping mechanism to get through each day.

Re: Ryan Bailey : Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:55 am  

It seems utterly bizarre to focus on a handful of (alleged) instances of faked depression in the face of the statistical evidence and peer-reviewed literature that confirm depression to be both widespread and under-reported within the population. As for knowing Bailey for 25 years, I dare say Gary Speed's death - just one example of many - came as a shock to some who'd known him for a similar period. Many people show a tremendous capacity for hiding what's inside.

Re: Ryan Bailey : Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:06 pm  

Clearwing wrote:

It seems utterly bizarre to focus on a handful of (alleged) instances of faked depression in the face of the statistical evidence and peer-reviewed literature that confirm depression to be both widespread and under-reported within the population. As for knowing Bailey for 25 years, I dare say Gary Speed's death - just one example of many - came as a shock to some who'd known him for a similar period. Many people show a tremendous capacity for hiding what's inside.

I've not got a focus on a handful of alleged instances, and am well aware of the under reporting of the issue - I merely commented on my cynicism of this 1 particular case - for reasons I've pointed out.... And to be honest, it's going public to the media that raises my suspicion - some will feel he's done this for the greater good, to break down barriers linked to mental health - Knowing the individual, I choose to believe it's been done for cynical reasons to try and get the Wire fans onside - make them forgive and forget his past misdemeanours, it ties in with his need to show them he's a 'reformed character' and worth a shot...

Do you accept that false claims ever happen?

Re: Ryan Bailey : Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm  

Superted wrote:

I've not got a focus on a handful of alleged instances, and am well aware of the under reporting of the issue - I merely commented on my cynicism of this 1 particular case - for reasons I've pointed out.... And to be honest, it's going public to the media that raises my suspicion - some will feel he's done this for the greater good, to break down barriers linked to mental health - Knowing the individual, I choose to believe it's been done for cynical reasons to try and get the Wire fans onside - make them forgive and forget his past misdemeanours, it ties in with his need to show them he's a 'reformed character' and worth a shot...

Do you accept that false claims ever happen?

The greater good may well not have been a factor in his decision to go public. Relief at knowing what's been wrong and the lift that comes from a recovery could very easily be causal in terms of wanting to talk about it.

False claims? I don't personally know of any but accept that they're probably sometimes made by those hoping to avoid jail and the like. Seems unlikely Bailey would play for the sympathy vote in this way; if he stopped to think about the reaction to his going public - and I'm not too convinced he stops to think a great deal - then I'd have thought he'd expect much the same response as you've given.

Re: Ryan Bailey : Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:55 pm  

Middleton_Loiner wrote:

When you suffer from Depression, you wear a Mask to hide your true self. This mask could be the Clown, the Hard Bloke, the Ladies Man, anything, but it's not the real person, and it's a coping mechanism to get through each day.

Some undoubtedly do. Those I have encountered have been fairly obvious, not that they have necessarily got the best help. You could justifiably argue there are many people I know who are hiding it. I think with Bailey he is more mentally weak than 'just' depression. The times I have heard him speaking he really struggles to put an articulate sentence together. Those with a poor education & background often do. I come from a background of low expectation & ambition. A lot of people I grew up with, when under emotional stress, resort to extremes, often violence, as they don't have the capacity or opportunity to express their feelings any other way. I don't like the labeling of people as depressed, paranoid, or whatever. That is often too convenient & an excuse to start pumping people full of drugs. I know they can give some relief, my father died last year with dementia having consumed a cocktail of prescription drugs that would make Keith Richards wince.
What numerous people would benefit from is mental stimulation & just to talk, which I think is what Bailey did with Sporting Chance. Stuffing people with mental problems with numbing drugs so they will quietly sit in front of a TV in a nursing home, overseen by well-meaning 17 year old girls does neither.

Re: Ryan Bailey : Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:58 pm  

tigertot wrote:

Some undoubtedly do. Those I have encountered have been fairly obvious,

And you'd know this how, exactly?

Re: Ryan Bailey : Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:01 pm  

Clearwing wrote:

And you'd know this how, exactly?

Because I have enquired about their welfare or spoken to them.

Re: Ryan Bailey : Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:57 pm  

tigertot wrote:

Because I have enquired about their welfare or spoken to them.

And the ones that aren't obvious?

Re: Ryan Bailey : Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:57 pm  

Surely Bailey must have been diagnosed with this condition before going public ? Hasn't he been having treatment from a well known clinic? And After Tony Smiths statement about Bailey I tend to believe him.