Re: RD 5 | St Helens (H) : Sat Mar 16, 2024 12:48 am  

Shabino wrote:

Think we need to be physically fitter to get to that level for longer. We looked tired in that second half, when should have been other way round considering how much Saints spent on D…..

Saints are machine like, we’re not at that level yet.

Fortunately theres only them and Wigan who are.

Re: RD 5 | St Helens (H) : Sat Mar 16, 2024 12:49 am  

thesaint71 wrote:

Said it was unsporting of Saints to withdraw Makinson so late
Walked in to the presser saying i'm not going to mention the ref

So he didn’t moan then.

Re: RD 5 | St Helens (H) : Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:10 am  

Not come onto to gloat but the comments about Oledski being the best prop in the league is a worry for you? He'll tackle and he did put a hit on Big Alex once. BUT going forward he's a pudding and runs out of gas? Would not swap him for young Delaney.

Re: RD 5 | St Helens (H) : Sat Mar 16, 2024 7:47 am  

Best team won. Quite comfortable in the end though we were a good watch for some of it. Usual pros and cons though I was pleased with our discipline. I think we have the building blocks of a good side but might be at that stage where an uncle Tony is needed to replace a Daryl Powell because at the end of the day, for all its gloss, our attack isn't that effective. That said, saints would have beaten most sides last night.

Re: RD 5 | St Helens (H) : Sat Mar 16, 2024 7:54 am  

Best first half we have seen under Smith, but we didn’t put enough points on the board and we only scored one try at home in the whole game. For all the flashy plays we see sometimes we don’t score enough points, let’s see how that goes against some of the weaker teams as we’ve played the better ones (bar Wigan) over the first rounds.

We need to be able to play structured attack as well as off the cuff, and we don’t seem to do the former very well at all. Look back to how Cas played when they finished top, their attack was devastating with Gale having lots of options to choose from all over the field. Of course they screwed up at the GF, but they were dynamite through the regular rounds. If we have aspirations of finishing in with a chance, we must start scoring more points, and when I look at the team sheet and how we play I’m not sure I can see where they are coming from.

In defence, I think we have improved loads, they scored one try out wide, one try due to a misread in defence and another from a kick that should have been diffused, but not really from open play other than Bennison. That’s because we have learned how to defend as a unit for periods, but we need to be able to play like that for longer.

We’re improving, but still have a long way to go to really threaten the top teams consistently. Can we do that under R/S, I don’t know but the next few weeks against some of the weaker teams in the comp will tell us a lot.

Re: RD 5 | St Helens (H) : Sat Mar 16, 2024 8:19 am  

Quality first 25-30 mins from Leeds but were just unable to keep it going.

I don’t think there is much between the 2 teams at all and wouldn’t surprise me if Leeds beat saints in the CC

Re: RD 5 | St Helens (H) : Sat Mar 16, 2024 8:29 am  

Rommel wrote:

Not come onto to gloat but the comments about Oledski being the best prop in the league is a worry for you? He'll tackle and he did put a hit on Big Alex once. BUT going forward he's a pudding and runs out of gas? Would not swap him for young Delaney.

Back in yet tank, Rommel
I thought Oledzski had a decent game last night. Walmsley probably better, barring his kicking game. But look at Mik's supporting cast. We had 2 lightweight tacklers in the SR, a number 10 who's effectively in the same mould, Goudemand (another with little go forward), Sangare (go forward but limited involvement) and Cam Smith whose remit is hardly the hard yards. I think even Big Al might struggle under those circs.

Re: RD 5 | St Helens (H) : Sat Mar 16, 2024 8:31 am  

First half we performed well for 30 minutes played some excellent rugby. Then saints fought back and in the end ran out convincing winners.
Make no mistake about this, we are a deeply flawed side, no attacking structure it’s all off the cuff rugby. Second half as per normal get down to the opposition 25 ,no meaningful plan to unlock the saints defence. Try we conceded under our posts was an absolute shocker, the Benison try was smart passing along the line. A decent defence would have coped with that. So far this season we haven’t produced a decent 80 minute performance .
Second half Croft tried his best with very little support runners. Tompkins who is turning out to be an excellent match analyst summed it up perfectly in comparing both sides playing methods. One will always prevail over the other, Saints have that and have proved it in recent seasons.
Saints must be paying Welsby a huge amount of money to keep him away from the Australian clubs. He is one hell of a player. Smith absolutely right in complaining about the referee letting Saints slow the ruck down. Saints players making no attempt ,having completed the tackle to clear the ruck area. If you recall several seasons ago this was picked up by referees and penalised. It didn’t have any bearing on the result but needs sorting out.
At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious we need to win next week, another defeat would be a huge set back.

Re: RD 5 | St Helens (H) : Sat Mar 16, 2024 8:53 am  

Can’t decide what I think about Cam Smith.
Is he a grafter, with good hands and good leadership?
Or a painfully slow player who gets in the way of offensive structures?

Re: RD 5 | St Helens (H) : Sat Mar 16, 2024 8:54 am  

Well, tbf I expected to lose by more.
Saints are just more organised, disciplined and clinical.

Positives:
First half was good and we started to show some real identity.
Miller is a real box of tricks and will be exciting to watch.
Mik is starting to get back to form (he's not the best prop in SL btw).
Sangare is getting fitter.
Goudemand is going pretty well, but he shouldn't be one of our regular 4 prop rotation.

Negatives:
We're yet to play for 80 minutes.
The attack is all still a bit too off the cuff and very unstructured.
Way too many errors in second half.
Frawley's kicking is terrible.
We don't put any pressure on the opposition kicker. Frawley was under pressure every time.
The selections and use of the bench is still really poor from Smith - we noticeably drop off when changes are made.

Oh and it was cold and wet....