: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:43 pm  

i'm not disputing that. i'm just redressing the arguements that smith was a golden bollox.
read my posts on this and i think it's a well balanced arguement.
smith did a great job at times but i honestly think he should have done better at times.
the final in question is one such point

: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:44 pm  

Cala Millor Rhino wrote:

sits and waits for gareth to say his hand is up!

Which would be his first stupid decision...

: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:46 pm  

Ouzo Time! wrote:

He based his selection partly on the dreadful performance by Mcdermott the previous week.

he had a mare danny, but so did the other 16.

: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:46 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

He did what coaches are paid to do and made a decision.

Marcus Bai doesn't play silly sods in his own in-goal and this whole debate drifts into the winds of time as a non-event.

He made the wrong decision - even you can accept that?

And if Calderwood hadn't scored the try he did and Ward and Sinfield were so tired from having to play with 16 men all game perhaps Cooke would not have been able run past them so easily?

If and buts?

: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:47 pm  

tad rhino wrote:

i'm not disputing that. i'm just redressing the arguements that smith was a golden bollox.
read my posts on this and i think it's a well balanced arguement.
smith did a great job at times but i honestly think he should have done better at times.
the final in question is one such point

I agree but you cant get it right all the time.

He made mistakes like anyone else and his unwillingness to admit mistakes peed me off at times.

Smith is one of if not the most successful coach in our history so I'm happy to dwell on the positives rather than the negatives.

: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:49 pm  

Eccleshill Rhino wrote:

He made the wrong decision - even you can accept that?

And the big deal is?

FFS not even someone with your ego David can claim to have a mistake free decision making slate. It happens. If all you can find is one mistake in four years which included two titles and a World Club Challenge then I'd say that's the sign of a bloody good coach.

: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:51 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

And the big deal is?

FFS not even someone with your ego David can claim to have a mistake free decision making slate. It happens. If all you can find is one mistake in four years which included two titles, two finals, a semi-final and a World Club Challenge then I'd say that's the sign of a bloody good coach.

other omitted achievements added!

: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:56 pm  

I don't think Tad is making unreasonable points, but he's being lumped in with Eccleshill's comments/approach.

I think there are three broad categories of opinion.

The first likes to strip the debate down to the very basics by concentrating almost exclusively on what Leeds won under TS's stewardship. They make the not unreasonable argument that the silverware is a better performance than any other Leeds coach and as a result he should be justly lauded. This group also has a tendency to dismiss any criticism of TS. For some because it seems heretical to them and for others because they take the view that mistakes will always be made and to focus on them seems churlish in comparison to the 4 trophies collected.

The second group fully accepts the merits of TS's achievements but feel there were times where his approach didn't achieve the results that maybe could have been achieved. They might point to the Challenge Cup final selection decisions of 2005, the use of Ali Lauitiiti, the selection of Francis Cummins or the 'mobile props' approach of 2006 and ponder if maybe more could have been achieved.

Thirdly there is davidbyw.

: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:57 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

And the big deal is?

FFS not even someone with your ego David can claim to have a mistake free decision making slate. It happens. If all you can find is one mistake in four years which included two titles and a World Club Challenge then I'd say that's the sign of a bloody good coach.

Ego - interesting critisism coming from "Mr I know best"

Smith made plenty of mistakes - the fact that seems to have been overlooked by many on here, you included. As I said earlier not everything under was a bed of roses - the numerous poor performances in big games - we lost far more big games than we ever won under Smith - have been swept under the carpet in a wave of adulation.

: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:00 pm  

Eccleshill Rhino wrote:

the numerous poor performances in big games - we lost far more big games than we ever won under Smith - have been swept under the carpet in a wave of adulation.

Which is why history is only ever written by winners.