Re: Round 15 | vs Leigh Leopards (H) : Wed Jun 26, 2024 11:55 pm  

I rewatched the Leigh game in cold blood last night. I agree with Kaeru that we lack quality, and our forwards are just outgunned as a set in terms of size (actually most noticeably in the back row against Leigh) but also aggression.

However, there were lots of occasions where our lack of line speed in defence was just awful. You can call it passive defence or any term you like, but there were multiple sets throughout the game where the line just stood still and watched Leigh play. This gifts easy yardage, and at times our defence would drift across following the ball, not pressuring playmakers at all. Its so static that even if they messed up a move Leigh could make 10 yards with a player getting the ball from a standing start. There were a couple of times where we also managed to leave huge gaps right up the middle as there was no urgency in players moving across to fill gaps as the defence moved to the other side following the ball.

Combine that with the lack of size and aggression in the tackle and we lose the collision a heck of a lot. It compounds - the defence is static, we lose the collision and the opposition get a quick PTB. Rinse and repeat. Good scrambling goal line defence saved us, but it's going to keep losing us games unless its fixed. We start sets further back than the opposition, who generally try hard to pin us back on our line with aggressive defence while we let them get away far too easily.

I'm not sure we have the personalities who can play a more aggressive defence, or whether its just lack of oomph, but some of those Leigh forwards were loving it. Be very interesting to see what a new coach would look to do, but for me addressing linespeed would be a major priority.

Re: Round 15 | vs Leigh Leopards (H) : Thu Jun 27, 2024 6:58 am  

Once were Loiners wrote:

I rewatched the Leigh game in cold blood last night. I agree with Kaeru that we lack quality, and our forwards are just outgunned as a set in terms of size (actually most noticeably in the back row against Leigh) but also aggression.

However, there were lots of occasions where our lack of line speed in defence was just awful. You can call it passive defence or any term you like, but there were multiple sets throughout the game where the line just stood still and watched Leigh play. This gifts easy yardage, and at times our defence would drift across following the ball, not pressuring playmakers at all. Its so static that even if they messed up a move Leigh could make 10 yards with a player getting the ball from a standing start. There were a couple of times where we also managed to leave huge gaps right up the middle as there was no urgency in players moving across to fill gaps as the defence moved to the other side following the ball.

Combine that with the lack of size and aggression in the tackle and we lose the collision a heck of a lot. It compounds - the defence is static, we lose the collision and the opposition get a quick PTB. Rinse and repeat. Good scrambling goal line defence saved us, but it's going to keep losing us games unless its fixed. We start sets further back than the opposition, who generally try hard to pin us back on our line with aggressive defence while we let them get away far too easily.

I'm not sure we have the personalities who can play a more aggressive defence, or whether its just lack of oomph, but some of those Leigh forwards were loving it. Be very interesting to see what a new coach would look to do, but for me addressing linespeed would be a major priority.

Excellent posting, I make no apologies for once again pointing out the devastation smith has caused . All this is entirely down to smith , the next incoming coach has an enormous job to sort out this mess.

Re: Round 15 | vs Leigh Leopards (H) : Thu Jun 27, 2024 8:21 am  

it comes from the lack of power in the pack. That is the new coaches No1 priority. Paramatta have a big powerful pack, BA sorted that during his time there, their team was extremely powerful and athletic in particular the season they got to the GF. Same with Rowley at Salford, they are powerful right across the park

Re: Round 15 | vs Leigh Leopards (H) : Thu Jun 27, 2024 3:12 pm  

Lads get coached in defensive line all the way through juniors, I don't think Smith has ruined these players or the side, that's just hyperbole.

Agree with the original post, good summary. We need a more aggressive and systemic defence. O'Connor runs out to put a hit on which is great when it works, but other than him McDonnell makes extra efforts for kick pressure etc and that's about it.

Ironically line speed is your ally when you're giving away size/power to the opposition, the worst thing you can do is invite a bigger opponent space to build up momentum.

The new coach and Blease I'm sure will be aware of this. Like I've said before, we likely need both better players and a more experienced head coach. I will point out that nearly every club employee I've seen interviewed has been glowing about RS and sad to see him leave.

There are lots of irritating habits in the side I think. I was nowhere near as rabid as most on here to oust RS but if we get the right man in, I think a fresh voice and some re-focus will do us good.

Re: Round 15 | vs Leigh Leopards (H) : Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:05 pm  

KaeruJim wrote:

Lads get coached in defensive line all the way through juniors, I don't think Smith has ruined these players or the side, that's just hyperbole.

Agree with the original post, good summary. We need a more aggressive and systemic defence. O'Connor runs out to put a hit on which is great when it works, but other than him McDonnell makes extra efforts for kick pressure etc and that's about it.

Ironically line speed is your ally when you're giving away size/power to the opposition, the worst thing you can do is invite a bigger opponent space to build up momentum.

The new coach and Blease I'm sure will be aware of this. Like I've said before, we likely need both better players and a more experienced head coach. I will point out that nearly every club employee I've seen interviewed has been glowing about RS and sad to see him leave.

There are lots of irritating habits in the side I think. I was nowhere near as rabid as most on here to oust RS but if we get the right man in, I think a fresh voice and some re-focus will do us good.

Interesting regarding the rhinos staff sad to see him leave, as a side issue I know several ex super league players and one super league coach. They all speak highly of Agar. Funny old world.

Re: Round 15 | vs Leigh Leopards (H) : Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:27 pm  

So your argument is that you know better than Chev Walker, Jarrod O'Connor, Mark Butterill etc plus the players and coach you mention?

Austin wasn't a fan of RS but then he was a toxic and anti-authoritarian and contrarian figure his whole career.

I'm sure things will come out as time passes, but as it stands we are getting a new coach in soon so RS is fish and chips paper.

Re: Round 15 | vs Leigh Leopards (H) : Sat Jun 29, 2024 7:58 am  

KaeruJim wrote:

So your argument is that you know better than Chev Walker, Jarrod O'Connor, Mark Butterill etc plus the players and coach you mention?

Austin wasn't a fan of RS but then he was a toxic and anti-authoritarian and contrarian figure his whole career.

I'm sure things will come out as time passes, but as it stands we are getting a new coach in soon so RS is fish and chips paper.

Were you referring to my post ? Anyway it’s not as simple as your quaint reference to fish and chips . The new coach will inherit a sub standard squad of players. Most of them have for months under smith showed no sign of improvement, many have gone backwards. Plus the fact the squad has never played with any kind of structure or game plan. I refer you to once were loiners recent excellent posting regarding our playing structure .
Have a look at the league table , our position after all the money spent is scandalous.

Re: Round 15 | vs Leigh Leopards (H) : Sat Jun 29, 2024 4:14 pm  

I don’t accept that version of where Leeds are at or that Rohan Smith has ruined Leeds etc.

We are in my view probably three starting players short of a top 4 side.

Not easy to do but hardly cataclysmic.

Re: Round 15 | vs Leigh Leopards (H) : Sun Jun 30, 2024 1:40 pm  

I agree Kaeru. The defensive setup is something that a new coach would seek to fix straight away, and as you say, all of our players will have played in a range of defensive structures, many of which will have focused on linespeed. That would at least put us on a level pegging with opponents. If we then add in some extra power in a couple of forwards we would look a different beast.

Where we may differ is that I think we need three big, strong forwards to make a real difference.

Re: Round 15 | vs Leigh Leopards (H) : Sun Jun 30, 2024 3:31 pm  

I know a fair number on here are critical of Bentley and whilst he isn`t the barn stopping forward we crave for.
We have imo missed his tackling and defence these last few weeks.