: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:02 pm  

Whilst I agree with the fact we have replacements for Scruton, Ellis and Toopi in the form of Watkins, Gibson, Burgess et al my view is that our close season recruitment has been none existent. We secured Buderas during last season and apart from him we haven't recruited we have simply promoted from within. Admittedly though Eastwood is out of the clubs hands and would have been a good acquisition but that doesn't change the fact in the close season we recruited No-one. This one signing nont arriving I feel could be crucial. If Eastwood had arrived the story I feel would be going:

"Leeds have strengthened with a superb young forward, A World Class Hooker and have continued to promote from within with young Gibson and Watkins."

I feel that if Eastwood would have arrived a lot of Leeds fans would be happy with our squad now. As it is he isn't here and Leeds have promoted from within on the whole.

I personally feel an extra forward would be a sensible addition to the squad and if Im honest I believe we need one. I am however willing to see what Mr Hethrington does as I believe every other Leeds fan should, after all; the man has earnt my trust...[quote][/quote]

: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:08 pm  

Who did we recruit prior to the 2008 season?

Who did we recruit prior to the 2007 season?

: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:17 pm  

G1 wrote:

Buderus, Watkins, Gibson and Allen actually.

9 - Buderus

then:
23 - Watkins
20 - Gibson
and
22 - Allan (actually)

G1 wrote:

Last year we had a real crisis in the centre and back row. As a result Scruton (who was dropped after round 1, IIRC and wasn't considered a fixture at prop by any means as the season began) emerged for the first time as a mainstay of the front row whilst Peacock went back in time and played a large proportion of games in the back row.

A large proportion? He started 11 games of 31 (35%) in the second row as one of the five bona-fide props available at the club. Peacock turned no clock back for me as he played as an out and out prop regardless of his starting position in the majority of those 11 games.

Scruton played only 2 games in 2007 both against Salford and broke bones in both games, he then played 30 of 35 in 2008. Except for his broken bones he may well have established himself in 2007 and in any case clearly did so last season within a five strong prop rotation.

G1 wrote:

Peacock going back to the front row permanently and the further increase in game time for Burgess easily off-set the loss of Scruton.

Leeds haven't replaced Scruton with Burgess as Burgess was already an integral piece of the five strong prop rotation available to the club. Game stats (as used earlier) would suggest his involvement is marginally higher in 2009 but it's only marginal as he was already stepping up in 2008 when called upon in his debut season.

What has changed this season (with Eastwood's non appearance) is Leeds are left with four props which for me is a regressive step. I suspect that was the role earmarked for Eastwood and was the role he played at Brisbane for most of last season and continues with now at the start of his Bulldogs career.

G1 wrote:

Then, of course, we appear to have found a gem in 2nd rower Carl Ablett who has been released to his natural position thanks to the emergence of two players in the centres who barely contributed last year, Watkins and Gibson.

Ablett played 30 of 35 games in 2008 so rather than him being a find he is continuing and developing his role within the team, finally in a more appropriate role.

G1 wrote:

Arguably, we have MORE depth this year, even without Eastwood.

By the eigth game of 2008 Leeds had used 24 players. So far this season it's 22 so arguably there are less bodies currently to choose from? Hence when players go down late in the week Leeds may take to the field with no conventional hooker or previously excluded players forced back into action a week ahead of planned.

: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:33 pm  

Much as I admire certain people's optimism, the simple, raw fact is that our squad is lighter this year than last. We've lost Ellis, Scruton and Toopi (all regular first team players) and we've brought in Buderus. It's simple maths.

To suggest that Burgess is a replacement for Scruton is rather ridiculous. Both players played for us last year and even played in the same team! How Burgess can be seen as a replacement is beyond me.

What next, is Burgess also a replacement for Peacock, seeing as Peacock will be retiring in a few years?

This also applies to Toopi. We had Watkins and Gibson last year - they both played. How can they be replacements if they were already here? As promising as these young players are they are not adequate replacements for Toopi at this stage in their careers. People forget that one of the reasons we went for Eastwood is that he can fill in at centre (much as Ablett and Ellis did last year) - clearly the management didn't think Watkins and Gibson were adequate replacements yet either. This hole has therefore not been filled.

Allan was here last year and played in the first team, so he can't be counted.

Which really just leaves McShane. Does McShane make our squad better than last year? Again, great prospect, but does he make all the difference?

: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:34 pm  

G1 wrote:

Who did we recruit prior to the 2008 season?

Who did we recruit prior to the 2007 season?

Who did we let go prior to the 2007 season?

Who did we let go prior to the 2008 season?

: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:39 pm  

This Burgess lad that formed part of this "5 prop rotation" last year, where did we sign him from?

: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:40 pm  

Mr Scruff wrote:

Who did we let go prior to the 2007 season?

Who did we let go prior to the 2008 season?

I don't know.

Who did we sign prior to the 2008 season?

Who did we sign prior to the 2007 season?

: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:41 pm  

tvoc wrote:

By the eigth game of 2008 Leeds had used 24 players. So far this season it's 22 so arguably there are less bodies currently to choose from? Hence when players go down late in the week Leeds may take to the field with no conventional hooker or previously excluded players forced back into action a week ahead of planned.

Two of which were long term injuries, (Toopi and Gibson and I'm sure there was another in the WCC) That would explain the extra players last year.

I recognise if we get similar injuries we may be struggling this year but we may have to cross that bridge later.

Given that Eastwood is assumed to be coming in 2010 it's difficult to sign a replacement for the rest of the year. At present the management can identify who will not be renewing their contract in 2009 and identify replacements for them. In the meantime thaty have the flexibility to wait and see what position suffers a long term injury and arrange a replacement when they knowwho need replacing rather than sign a stopgap now and finding that they required the space to cover another position.

: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:41 pm  

G1 wrote:

This Burgess lad that formed part of this "5 prop rotation" last year, where did we sign him from?

I think the more pertinent question would be "when did we sign him"...

: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:42 pm  

Mr Scruff wrote:

It's simple maths.

No its' not. Its' Rugby League.

There's players contracts. There's a salary cap. There's a commitment to junior development. There are young players (and experienced ones) who will want new contracts.

Its' far from simple maths.

Well not for you and other Internet experts it isn't, but for GH its' a lot more than just simple maths.