Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:12 pm  

tvoc wrote:

Firstly this board I believe has no impact on confidence at Headingley and if it has then they are in the wrong business.

Negative thought is a menace and should be kept well away from creative people everywhere. I do hope the players don't read the terrible stuff posted on theses forums but I suspect some of them do. Some of the comments on here have been calling for chants of sack the coach etc and booing and if this sort of negative thinking is taken onto the terraces then there could well be a negative impact

tvoc wrote:

And secondly the only time you've been behind Hardaker, Hall and Watkins is with your boot up their arris as they walk through the exit door.

I have consistently been fully behind our side in previous times of adversity and have posted positive comment specifically on all three players you name. But unlike some of the more sycophantic hero worship of certain players displayed on this forum I have had on occasion good reason to balance the rhetoric by pointing out a few basic flaws in each players game which have been proven to be correct observations. Which of my comments do you disagree with on each player?

Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:08 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

So let us be clear Sal, do you want a change of coach or do you want Mac to stay?

I am not so deep in the blame game as you but my view is based on what is clearly and firstly the players that are failing to perform. IMO this has been down to errors and poor decision making that has been the personal responsibility of those same players who should know how to tackle, pass and where to stand in the defensive line as they have done hundreds of times previously. Your whole argument is based an assumption that the coach is not working on the training field to improve performances. Why do you think the likes of Hardaker, Watkins and recently McGuire are making schoolboy errors?

I believe there are reasonable reasons outside the coaches control. Confidence like momentum are great when going for you but much more difficult to arrest when running against you. This season has been a very odd one throughout SL and just a few less errors at crucial times in games could have seen us mid table now.

But we are where we are and we have to accept that and we would all do better to get behind the players and coaches to try and lift the confidence rather than yet more and more negative topics that all repeat the same thing.

I don't have an issue with McDermott staying provided his role at the club is changed and a serious assistant/s are appointed who can challenge his dogma.

Experienced players are making errors because the game plan of the coach isn't working so they are forcing the game. The defence isn't working again because the structures implemented by the coach don't work. Having a centre defending next to a prop is madness and you will not find another centre defending as far in field as Watkins at any of the top teams in SL.

I am not suggesting McDermott isn't working on the training field - what I am suggesting is whatever he is coaching isn't working - even you have to admit, least points scored, most points conceded and bottom of the league is tangible evidence something isn't working.

I take your point about things outside of his control but I ask you again - given all the stuff out of his control do you think the current position is as good as McDermott could have achieved?

We pay good money to watch the team we expect a level of performance that reflects the make up of the team - not winning but a performance. You expect all fans to cheer the team off and not criticise when they have got beat by 50 points - are you for real?

Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:17 pm  

Marty Grrrrrrrrrr! wrote:

McD watches Baldwinson every day in training and im sure he watches his performances and gets reports from Fev as to how he is doing and on that basis forms a decision as to whether he is ready at this stage to play at a much higher level. Whether you or I or anyone else agrees that is McD's decision to make.

If he decides the answer is not yet does that mean he is doing it out of spite??? Its ridiculous to say yes and there is no evidence to say yes.

As to why is he in the squad, quite simply as with a few of the numbers 20-25 they are lads with potential but not quite ready yet.

Graham Murray didnt used to pick Sinfield often when Sinny was squad number 30. Was that out of spite??? Why was Sinny in the squad??? He was England academy captain so why wasnt he ready????. It was all simply because the coach at that time believed he wasnt quite ready at so young to play SL.

Under Murray Sinfield played 24 times so I would suggest your Murray didn't pick Sinfield is inaccurate - so we can discount the rest of the paragraph as nonsense.

Baldwinson made his debut in 2013 so if he was good enough then why isn't he good enough now? Has he regressed so far in the Leeds system?

Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:22 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I don't have an issue with McDermott staying provided his role at the club is changed and a serious assistant/s are appointed who can challenge his dogma.

Experienced players are making errors because the game plan of the coach isn't working so they are forcing the game. The defence isn't working again because the structures implemented by the coach don't work. Having a centre defending next to a prop is madness and you will not find another centre defending as far in field as Watkins at any of the top teams in SL.

I am not suggesting McDermott isn't working on the training field - what I am suggesting is whatever he is coaching isn't working - even you have to admit, least points scored, most points conceded and bottom of the league is tangible evidence something isn't working.

I take your point about things outside of his control but I ask you again - given all the stuff out of his control do you think the current position is as good as McDermott could have achieved?

We pay good money to watch the team we expect a level of performance that reflects the make up of the team - not winning but a performance. You expect all fans to cheer the team off and not criticise when they have got beat by 50 points - are you for real?

A measured and fair assessment Sal IMO.....but you must know by now Juan (sorry for not asking Mr.Cornetto) will never concede an inch. We all know there will be a lengthy and tedious point by point rebuttal. Bring it on Juan zzzzzzz. At least Printer only sometimes likes to play devil's advocate ....Juan is just the permanent full time devil's sophist

Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:52 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Yes. I did say "not so deep" Most of my posts are positive whereas I would say most (not all) of Sal's are negative. I have confined my critical comments to what can be seen by all on the pitch rather than to speculate on what the coach was or wasn't doing in private.

So have I - my eyes tell me that the team is not being coached well (structures, motivation, tactics, use of subs)

Juan Cornetto wrote:

And I am not calling for anyone to be sacked from their job.

I am

Juan Cornetto wrote:

I am more than happy for you to quote me on Hardaker. I have been consistent in my opinion over some time and applauded his strengths but pointed out his shortcomings too which others consistently failed to see or ignore. Would you not agree that my critical comments in this case have since been proven to be correct?

You are more than entitled to your opinion. I happen to disagree with it. You obviously have a problem with Hardaker, but he was the best player in SL last year (voted by his peers). The following have been in equally poor form to that of Hardaker: Cuthbertson, Singleton, Ablett, Garbutt (early season - last 2 or 3 games good form), Hall, Sutcliffe, McGuire and Watkins. We don't appear to see the same vehemence of negative opinion about any of those established players.

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Would you not agree that my critical comments in this case have since been proven to be correct?

Proven in what way?

Juan Cornetto wrote:

No. The difference is that it is the players on the field that are the ones missing tackles, making errors and poor decisions. This is plain for all to see and blame can be apportioned fairly. Why do you consider that when a player misses a tackle or fumbles a pass that this is the fault of the coach? We know from past experience that the coach can do his job but if you take away more than half his team each week on top of losing his long time on-field generals then he is at something of a handicap.

Your consistent fallback argument. And yet, I have been consistent in pressing you to explain why it is that we appear to have no: 6th tackle options near the opponents' line
Structures in defense (at least no improvement on those structures) - no evidence that they have been instructed how best to line up in defense to try & plug the same gaps that appear week after week
Structures in attack (few lines of runners off the ball carrier creating hesitancy & doubt in the opposition line)
Poor use of substitutes (although this is less a priority this year from previous)
In short, not one crumb of evidence that problems have been worked on & sorted so that they become a non-problem.

Of course, you could be correct & BMD could have sorted all of these out, but all the players EVERY SINGLE GAME just forget what to do.

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Now I am on record for being critical of the management for the failure to replace the leadership and play making roles of Sinny and JP. IMO had we done that we would be at least mid table now as despite all the problems we have not taken advantage of enough crucial scoring opportunities.

I agree, but to replace those two adequately just ain't going to happen if you agree Thurston, Cronk etc etc are not available to us. Which leads to another consistent gripe. Is BMD only capable of getting his team to compete if he has SL's best ever captain & organiser & SL's best ever prop & England captain? Welcome to the real world Mr McDermott

Juan Cornetto wrote:

So who is the man you would replace him with then?

I don't know - I do not know what the budget is for coach, or who is available. But as others have said, coaches generally have a shelf life.

Juan Cornetto wrote:

and explain why this is worth the risk?

I would turn that around & say BMD has put us at real risk of relegation

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Well in recent times there is clear evidence of effort and the word coming out from the players is of all pulling together in training so surely this is an improvement?

What?
Reporter: "So **** (insert player's name here), what are you all doing to try & get yourselves out of the current predicament?"
****: "Well Brian, not a lot really. BMD is just going through the motions & we couldn't give a flying ****"

Juan Cornetto wrote:

You ask do I play my part. Well I have supported Leeds since the late 50s and was a season ticket holder for 40 years (from a time when you were called members with your name on the seat) right up until I semi retired to Spain. I was a founder committee member of the Headingley Grounds branch of the Supporters Club for several years and went to every home and away game for many, many years. I was a club sponsor in the early 80s and last in 2007 (while in Spain) which has more than paid for my season tickets for another 30 years. While in Spain I have made regular trips back and have attended some memorable games. For 9 years or so I was a junior rugby coach and have management experience of a semi pro side. I see all the games on Sky and view the highlights of all the others so with due respect I think I am as qualified as most to form an opinion on players, managers and coaches.

Very nice, but YOU said that we should all get behind BMD & the team. So your part in this is a few strokes of the keyboard from far away in the forlorn hope that one or more of the team may read these pages.

Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:02 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

I added the quotation marks they were not in your original posting

Oops, got me there. Teach me to post after an afternoon drink!

The point remains, it was written tongue in cheek (unless you believe I think there is an ingenious plan)

Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:06 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Negative thought is a menace and should be kept well away from creative people everywhere. I do hope the players don't read the terrible stuff posted on theses forums but I suspect some of them do. Some of the comments on here have been calling for chants of sack the coach etc and booing and if this sort of negative thinking is taken onto the terraces then there could well be a negative impact

I have consistently been fully behind our side in previous times of adversity and have posted positive comment specifically on all three players you name. But unlike some of the more sycophantic hero worship of certain players displayed on this forum I have had on occasion good reason to balance the rhetoric by pointing out a few basic flaws in each players game which have been proven to be correct observations. Which of my comments do you disagree with on each player?

Do you not see the dichotomy & hypocrisy of the above?

Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:12 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Under Murray Sinfield played 24 times so I would suggest your Murray didn't pick Sinfield is inaccurate - so we can discount the rest of the paragraph as nonsense.

Baldwinson made his debut in 2013 so if he was good enough then why isn't he good enough now? Has he regressed so far in the Leeds system?

I said Murray didnt pick Sinfield often not never.

Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:04 pm  

Marty Grrrrrrrrrr! wrote:

I said Murray didnt pick Sinfield often not never.

In Murray's second season Sinfield played 21 times I would say that is pretty often wouldn't you - so your last paragraph of your previous post is indeed nonsense. How you can compare that to the treatment Baldwinson has received from McDermott defies any logic - but then so much posted on this thread does too.

Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:12 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

In Murray's second season Sinfield played 21 times I would say that is pretty often wouldn't you - so your last paragraph of your previous post is indeed nonsense. How you can compare that to the treatment Baldwinson has received from McDermott defies any logic - but then so much posted on this thread does too.

The point i was making Sal was a lot of young players are drip fed quite rightly into the squad. I used Sinfield as an example as he is our most successful academy product. I had hoped you wouldnt take it as literally as you clearly have.

It was said McD has been spiteful to Baldwinson which there is no evidence of. He just doesnt deem him ready for Leeds at this stage of young career. As we all know prop is a very different position for a youngster than a winger for example.

Prop in fact is one position we havent had many injuries at. Whether you or I think Baldwinson is ready its McD's decision to make based on what he sees every day at training. If he chooses not to pick him thats not being spiteful in any way and its a ridiculous term to use.

Was he being spiteful when he dropped Singo earlier in the year? Or was he making a decision that he thought was best for the team at that time?

Im not a McD fan or hater i just objected to the term spiteful being used as it implies McD is deliberately making harmful decisions which i dont believe anyone at the club is doing. I firmly believe the people running the team and club are doing everything to turn this around.