: Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:44 am  

Aladdin Sane wrote:

I don't think Tad is making unreasonable points, but he's being lumped in with Eccleshill's comments/approach.

I think there are three broad categories of opinion.

The first likes to strip the debate down to the very basics by concentrating almost exclusively on what Leeds won under TS's stewardship. They make the not unreasonable argument that the silverware is a better performance than any other Leeds coach and as a result he should be justly lauded. This group also has a tendency to dismiss any criticism of TS. For some because it seems heretical to them and for others because they take the view that mistakes will always be made and to focus on them seems churlish in comparison to the 4 trophies collected.

The second group fully accepts the merits of TS's achievements but feel there were times where his approach didn't achieve the results that maybe could have been achieved. They might point to the Challenge Cup final selection decisions of 2005, the use of Ali Lauitiiti, the selection of Francis Cummins or the 'mobile props' approach of 2006 and ponder if maybe more could have been achieved.

Thirdly there is davidbyw.

That's the way I see it as well. I'm in the second group, because i feel so much more could have and should have been achieved in 05 and 06. But fair play to TS for turning it around in 07.
These poor results under Bluey are starting to irk me, however I'm scared to criticise because believe it or not we still have it in us to win the grand final. And if we do all the critics will be eating humble pie. If we don't then they will be justified.

Re: Why such leeway for Bluey? : Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:40 pm  

G1 wrote:

Now don't get me wrong, my knee isn't jerking and I remain confident that this will be turned around but........................

Cast your minds back. Imagine of Smith were presiding over this current period.

Some baffling team selections, awful discpline, complete lack of structure, woeful handling and support play (or lack thereof) is a throwback to the 1980's. Yet Bluey remains free of criticism?

Hmmmmmm. Interesting,

just looked at this post G so sorry for my late reply!! the throwback to the 80's comment is spot on!! its like some horrible flash back!! seeing players brake withe no support!!

: Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:54 pm  

Eccleshill Rhino wrote:

TVOC will be able to confirm 1996 apart was 2006 the first year we got knocked out of the playoffs round 1?

I can certainly confirm that there were NO SL Play Offs in 1996 as it was still a first past the post system to decide the Champions for the initial two years. Leeds did not qualify for the end of season Premiership Play Offs in '96 although they did in '97.

Once the SL Play-Offs kicked in to decide the Champions from 1998 onwards Leeds have gone out twice at the first attempt in 2001 and 2006.

In two other seasons (1999 and 2003) Leeds have lost both their play off games before being eliminated.

Re: Why such leeway for Bluey? : Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:20 pm  

sgtwilko wrote:

just looked at this post G so sorry for my late reply!! the throwback to the 80's comment is spot on!! its like some horrible flash back!! seeing players brake withe no support!!

Last night I wondered if Mal Reilly was back on the coaching staff.

One man rugby and no support play.

At least Reilly focused on a decent kick at the end of the sets.

IF the boys are playing to his game plan we're in deep trouble.

: Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:20 pm  

tad rhino wrote:

we are,i think most would agree,quite a bit under the cap so is it

A- GH is not letting the coach use the full cap.he does like to boast about being under it.in which case the coach is working with one hand behind his back.

or

B- the coach has been given the funds and is happy with the squad in quality and size in which case he is not doing his job properly and needs to quickly redress this

Or after to the Eastwood fiasco there isn't any decent players left to bring in.

: Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:22 pm  

fanstanningley wrote:

Or after to the Eastwood fiasco there isn't any decent players left to bring in.

Havent read through any of the thread but that is my taking on things. Why go for a quick fix if there is no one available to repair things.

: Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:36 pm  

tvoc wrote:

I can certainly confirm that there were NO SL Play Offs in 1996 as it was still a first past the post system to decide the Champions for the initial two years. Leeds did not qualify for the end of season Premiership Play Offs in '96 although they did in '97.

Once the SL Play-Offs kicked in to decide the Champions from 1998 onwards Leeds have gone out twice at the first attempt in 2001 and 2006.

In two other seasons (1999 and 2003) Leeds have lost both their play off games before being eliminated.

How did we not qualify for the 96 play offs we finished 2nd behind wigan

Stones Bitter Championship 1995-96 Final Standings

Pos Team P W D L F A Pts
1 Wigan 20 18 0 2 810 316 36
2 Leeds 20 14 0 6 552 405 28
3 Halifax 20 12 1 7 456 463 25
4 St. Helens 20 12 0 8 732 508 24
5 Sheffield Eagles 20 10 0 10 482 528 20
6 Castleford 20 9 1 10 448 566 19
7 Bradford Bulls 20 8 0 12 418 476 16
8 Oldham Bears 20 8 0 12 382 535 16
9 Warrington 20 7 0 13 443 514 14
10 London Broncos 20 7 0 13 466 585 14
11 Workington Town 20 4 0 16 317 610 8

: Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:40 pm  

BigM wrote:

How did we not qualify for the 96 play offs we finished 2nd behind wigan

Stones Bitter Championship 1995-96 Final Standings

Pos Team P W D L F A Pts
1 Wigan 20 18 0 2 810 316 36
2 Leeds 20 14 0 6 552 405 28
3 Halifax 20 12 1 7 456 463 25
4 St. Helens 20 12 0 8 732 508 24
5 Sheffield Eagles 20 10 0 10 482 528 20
6 Castleford 20 9 1 10 448 566 19
7 Bradford Bulls 20 8 0 12 418 476 16
8 Oldham Bears 20 8 0 12 382 535 16
9 Warrington 20 7 0 13 443 514 14
10 London Broncos 20 7 0 13 466 585 14
11 Workington Town 20 4 0 16 317 610 8

Yeah, he's on about the 96 SL1 season not the last 95/96 1st division season.

: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:04 pm  

BigM wrote:

How did we not qualify for the 96 play offs we finished 2nd behind wigan

Stones Bitter Championship 1995-96 Final Standings

Pos Team P W D L F A Pts
1 Wigan 20 18 0 2 810 316 36
2 Leeds 20 14 0 6 552 405 28
3 Halifax 20 12 1 7 456 463 25
4 St. Helens 20 12 0 8 732 508 24
5 Sheffield Eagles 20 10 0 10 482 528 20
6 Castleford 20 9 1 10 448 566 19
7 Bradford Bulls 20 8 0 12 418 476 16
8 Oldham Bears 20 8 0 12 382 535 16
9 Warrington 20 7 0 13 443 514 14
10 London Broncos 20 7 0 13 466 585 14
11 Workington Town 20 4 0 16 317 610 8

Because there was no such thing as a play off in 96

: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:13 pm  

BigM wrote:

How did we not qualify for the 96 play offs we finished 2nd behind wigan

If you bothered to read his post he answered your question.