Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:20 pm  

The word "decline" keeps getting banded around - from three titles in consecutive years and four in six years, there was only one way to go.

Draw analogies to Saints all you like, but how many Grand Finals have they won since 2004? If you're seriously suggesting you'd rather be "competitive" every year than win the top prize three years running you need your bumps feeling.

This "decline" resulted in Leeds making the Challenge Cup final, winning a playoff game away at the league leaders and getting within 80 minutes of Old Trafford, despite losing their two best players for the business end of the season. Wigan and Warrington apart, I'm guessing every other club in SL would have quite happily swapped places with this "team in decline".

Yes, there is work to be done restructuring an ageing side and a couple or recruitment/retention decisions haven't worked out, but FFS that's sport. Some people have been around long enough to know that no team ever remains dominant for long unless they have a massive advantage over the competition (Wigan in the 80s/90s for example).

[Bullseye]

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:21 pm  

El Diablo wrote:

In fairness, their decline was accelerated, by all accounts, by the disintegration of their business, which I don't believe we're facing.

I do agree that there needs to be evidence of re-building, otherwise it will be unclear what we're in a transition to. But I don't think we're on the same slippery slope as Bradford, whatever the on-field issues may be.

Is completely right. Last time I looked Leeds weren't struggling financially with twin millstones of a radically expensive white elephant of a ground and a radically expensive court case and subsequent costs due to a white elephant of a player!

Leeds are just beginning to go through a transitional phase. When you look at the history of the club you get more perspective. Perhaps it's not your turn to be in the top 4 for a bit, but I'm sure you'll be back as will we.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:23 pm  

Remarkable_Rhinos wrote:

I care.

I know you care, Lee Smith never shuts up about you caring.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:27 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

Is completely right. Last time I looked Leeds weren't struggling financially with twin millstones of a radically expensive white elephant of a ground and a radically expensive court case and subsequent costs due to a white elephant of a player!

Leeds are just beginning to go through a transitional phase. When you look at the history of the club you get more perspective. Perhaps it's not your turn to be in the top 4 for a bit, but I'm sure you'll be back as will we.

Hold on - we don't need Bratfud fans coming on here talking sense...can't you see we're busy wallowing in self-loathing and self-pity

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:27 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

This "decline" resulted in Leeds making the Challenge Cup final, winning a playoff game away at the league leaders and getting within 80 minutes of Old Trafford, despite losing their two best players for the business end of the season.

Peacock and?

Obviously you can't be including McGuire in that statement as he played in all but the final 80 minutes.

Burgess?

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:28 pm  

tvoc wrote:

I know you care, Lee Smith never shuts up about you caring.

See! Bless Smithy and all his greatness. He's the key to my eternal optimism and happiness.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:29 pm  

tvoc wrote:

Peacock and?

Obviously you can't be including McGuire in that statement as he played in all but the final 80 minutes.

Burgess?

Donald.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:36 pm  

Nah Donald was on the team-sheet.

Do you know who was overlooked in the final two games though?

No wonder you had a smile on your face nobody's been able to shift since.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:54 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

The word "decline" keeps getting banded around - from three titles in consecutive years and four in six years, there was only one way to go.

Draw analogies to Saints all you like, but how many Grand Finals have they won since 2004? If you're seriously suggesting you'd rather be "competitive" every year than win the top prize three years running you need your bumps feeling.

This "decline" resulted in Leeds making the Challenge Cup final, winning a playoff game away at the league leaders and getting within 80 minutes of Old Trafford, despite losing their two best players for the business end of the season. Wigan and Warrington apart, I'm guessing every other club in SL would have quite happily swapped places with this "team in decline".

Yes, there is work to be done restructuring an ageing side and a couple or recruitment/retention decisions haven't worked out, but FFS that's sport. Some people have been around long enough to know that no team ever remains dominant for long unless they have a massive advantage over the competition (Wigan in the 80s/90s for example).

Andy last year was a decline on 2009, 2011 is a further decline on 2010. This is all I am suggesting - for me the decline is now a freefall and I fail to see how that is going to be arrested any time soon. All I see is continual re-signing of aged players who are being shown to be not able to compete by the better sides.

As the one of the biggest clubs in the competition we should not be a position where major restructuring is required - this should be an ongoing process, the fact we have so many players OOC at the same time is poor management. The writing was on the wall all the way through last season - but injuries were used as a form of denial for the decline

It is not about domination it is about competitiveness - and no one can honestly say we have been competitive when we have faced the better sides. What has been disappointing is the manner of the defeats to Warrington, Huddersfield and Saints and how quickly these sides have passed us.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:58 pm  

tvoc wrote:

Nah Donald was on the team-sheet.

Do you know who was overlooked in the final two games though?

No wonder you had a smile on your face nobody's been able to shift since.

I don't dislike him. I just think he's overrated. Very much like U2 (the band!). They're a band. Good on them. Occasionally do something fantastic. But mainly, just a half decent band. Not "THE GREATEST BAND IN THE WORLD!" We need bands like that. Sure. Just like we need players like Smith. I just think he seems to get FAR more praise than he deserves.

Maybe sometimes I go a bit OTT on the criticism, but that's only to try and redress the balance of all the love he seems to get. He's fine. But that's it. Just fine. Massively overrated.