Re: RD 24 | St Helens (A) : Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:09 am  

christopher wrote:

It was disappointing but Saints were just up for it and we weren’t, I don’t think theres much to over analyse, they need to put it to bed and move on, I don’t think last night defines the players.

Look at the season as a whole, weve had two really poor games, that IMO isn’t too bad considering the disruption and schedule

I think that’s a bit generous, there’s been a few more than that and certainly some halves to forget and that’s the concern recently as against Wigan, Wakefield, Hull and last night we’ve had poor first halves. (Mitigating factors aside)

Re: RD 24 | St Helens (A) : Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:13 am  

£1.25m of cap unavailable last night. Crazy really.

Re: RD 24 | St Helens (A) : Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:16 am  

As others have said, Johnson was impressive last night. His distribution/organisation looked good and his passing to both sides was good. He was limping a bit and didn't appear at dummy half for a couple of sets, not sure if that was down to injury or fatigue but he did well.
Really hope he has rediscovered his desire to play SL.

Re: RD 24 | St Helens (A) : Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:28 am  

Seth wrote:

[code][/code]I just think Im able to assess the capacity of the side available and whether its got near its capabilities.

The most disappointing thing were those opening minutes from the off, running down dark alleys on the short side, passing to players knees, not getting to a kick then backing up with penalties. Regardless of players missing (we had 9 of our 1-17 playing) we should be better than that at least.

I get what you are saying and it is frustrating re passing and inability to kick, however that is very much reflective of some of our key players (last night) capabilities. We know that Dywers distribution from dummy half is erratic, we know that Myler's field kicking is substandard. Both of those things were never going to change and to have any chance of getting in arm wrestle against Saints they would have had to.

Re: RD 24 | St Helens (A) : Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:32 am  

If he stays he's the natural successor for Dwyer: however he's a different player and he might well be challenging Leeming too. Which is a good position to be in.

Last night wasn't without some bright lights but on the whole, individually and collectively a performance to forget. Credit to Saints too - mark of a champion side to take a loss and respond in that fashion when really there's nothing more on the line than pride. Not that we offered up many speedbumps in the road for them.

Re: RD 24 | St Helens (A) : Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:32 am  

Seth wrote:

I think that’s a bit generous, there’s been a few more than that and certainly some halves to forget and that’s the concern recently as against Wigan, Wakefield, Hull and last night we’ve had poor first halves. (Mitigating factors aside)

But even with those bad halves of games we’ve manage to get a win or st leadt not capitulate, last night was bound to happen at some point.

You cannot discount the injuries/bans and disruption that’s happened, if we had gone through the season with a relatively stable and fit squad (like saints catslsn and Warrington) and we were scratching around for 6th spot Id be very disappointed indeed.

Unfortunately this season is what it is

Re: RD 24 | St Helens (A) : Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:41 am  

ArthurClues wrote:

I get what you are saying and it is frustrating re passing and inability to kick, however that is very much reflective of some of our key players (last night) capabilities. We know that Dywers distribution from dummy half is erratic, we know that Myler's field kicking is substandard. Both of those things were never going to change and to have any chance of getting in arm wrestle against Saints they would have had to.

Honestly I wouldn't have Myler in the halves at Leeds unless there was noone else: I'd pick Broadbent, O'Connor, Martin, Smith ahead of him. His kicking makes me so angry I can't deal with it.

He is much better at FB where he can use his skill, roam about and provide the extra man in attack. I still hope and expect Walker to go past him for #1 next season though.

I'm starting to get Marty's rage about hooker as well - you can see all the pace and momentum ebb away from us with these constantly erratic passes. I'm not sure we had the pack to compete with Saints in any case last night, but we should have done a bit better.

If we do manage to get a fully fit squad before the start of next year, I'm really interested to see Agar's selection because there will be some good players not in the 17.

Re: RD 24 | St Helens (A) : Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:45 pm  

christopher wrote:

But even with those bad halves of games we’ve manage to get a win or st leadt not capitulate, last night was bound to happen at some point.

You cannot discount the injuries/bans and disruption that’s happened, if we had gone through the season with a relatively stable and fit squad (like saints catslsn and Warrington) and we were scratching around for 6th spot Id be very disappointed indeed.

Unfortunately this season is what it is

you probably would have been disappointed (but would have got over it quickly ) . we are looking better for next year and cas are looking worse but with a full side this year we would prob have been playing for 5th or 6th with cas and hull , kr i think are flattered by the lesser games played ...... the best years have come from settled sides 98 99 2004 mid 2005 2015 and (2017 when others had injuries )

Re: RD 24 | St Helens (A) : Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:08 pm  

This game underlined why Saints are the best team in SL IMO. They didn't really get out of first gear, not that they needed to either. I thought they were dead unlucky to lose against Catalans, who have flattered to deceive all year. While Catalans winning the GF might be good for RL geopolitics, I'm sorry, that team simply doesn't deserve it - not enough skill and far too many thugs (Tomkins, McIlorum, Maloney etc). I hope Saints are wound up enough to really put them to the sword when it matters. I'm still baffled as to why Catalans managed to get a game called off for their backroom staff catching COVID, and not get fined points by the RFL.

As for Leeds, a few positives - Myler looked sharp, as did Johnson when he came on. Some real selection headaches to come next year, even if recent history suggests we'll go another full season without being able to play a full-strength team (I hope the Bentley injury isn't bad).

I reckon if we'd had Tetevano or Oledski to take the edge of Walmsley's destructive running, it could have been a different scoreline, but then again the same could be said if the whole team hadn't been so soft in the first half. Running the ball on the last tackle of the first set said it all really - and it went downhill rapidly from there.

The numbers of players missing doesn't tell the whole story IMO (we probably can't count Walker, for example, who has been out all season). Hurrell likewise is too inconsistent. Mellor, Gannon, Sutcliffe, McLelland, and Vuniyayawa might have made incremental improvements but I doubt would have had a major impact. The real key losses for Leeds are players like Gale, Lui, Tetevano, and Oledski - we need 3/4 of them available if we have any hope of progressing in the play-offs this season (plus Myler, Prior, Newman, Leeming and Martin).