Re: 2023 IN | Justin Sangare - 2 Yr - Expires: 2024 : Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:06 pm  

Sir Gregory ParsloeP wrote:

I agree we are still weaker. The key is Zane playing like a £200k forward not a £50k one or exiting.
We could do with a Dale Finucane type, I know he is too expensive. A big tough leader who could play at 13 and in effect play like a 3rd prop when he’s on. Let Smith do the ball playing when he comes on.

Yep, against certain teams a 3rd starting prop with Smith coming off the bench is definitely the way to go. Such a shame because Tetavano initially looked like he could give us that. What an absolute disaster it's been for both us and him. I'd like to think there will be a happy ending for both parties but it does seem unlikely.

Re: 2023 IN | Justin Sangare - 2 Yr - Expires: 2024 : Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:04 pm  

ArthurClues wrote:

For reasons of previous form, injury, indiscipline and inexperience I don't the above list is good enough to close the gap on the best teams. Next year Wigan will have Mago, Singleton, Byrne, Harvard, Cooper, Ellis and possibly also Partington. Wire will have Kasiano, Vaughan, Dudson, Philbin, Bullock, Harrison and the big lad they have just signed from Wests. Saints will continue to have the best three props in the SL in Walmsley, Lees and Passi, with a strong supporting cast. If we don't attempt to keep up with best we'll continue to get smashed down the middle, and continue to lose more than we win.

I agree to an extent but with Tetevano being a marquee player taking up £150k on the cap, Mik and Prior also being on decent above SL average wages, Sangare and Holroyd probably a bit below SL average wage, I don’t see how we can justify using more of our salary cap on another prop. We only have 2M or whatever the figure is to spend.

Re: 2023 IN | Justin Sangare - 2 Yr - Expires: 2024 : Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:06 pm  

Unfortunately I don’t see another Prop coming in unless someone leaves, and there’s 2 I’d like to leave at the end of this season, although it’s unlikely.

Re: 2023 IN | Justin Sangare - 2 Yr - Expires: 2024 : Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:38 pm  

Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:

I agree to an extent but with Tetevano being a marquee player taking up £150k on the cap, Mik and Prior also being on decent above SL average wages, Sangare and Holroyd probably a bit below SL average wage, I don’t see how we can justify using more of our salary cap on another prop. We only have 2M or whatever the figure is to spend.

Fair enough. I respect your opinion even if I don't share it on this occasion. Out of interest which position would you choose to strengthen, and who would the player be?

Re: 2023 IN | Justin Sangare - 2 Yr - Expires: 2024 : Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:51 pm  

ArthurClues wrote:

Fair enough. I respect your opinion even if I don't share it on this occasion. Out of interest which position would you choose to strengthen, and who would the player be?

I’m presuming/think Thompson, Mustapha, Briscoe, Dwyer will leave and possibly Walker too. We’ve already seen Broadbent and Mellor leave. That’s going to leave us short in the back row and centre moving forward and that’s where I think we need to strengthen next.

As things stand we have the below, Sutcliffe is ok as a squad utility cover player but isn’t good enough to be 1st choice 17 imo. A couple of injuries in the 2nd row and were seriously weak there.

Centres
Newman, Sutcliffe
2nd row
Martin, Bentley, Gannon, Donaldson
Loose Forward
Smith, O’Connor

It all depends who and what salary cap space is available, but I’d like us to sign an NRL based centre to take Thompson’s overseas quota space and a Super League based back rower to add some depth there.

Re: 2023 IN | Justin Sangare - 2 Yr - Expires: 2024 : Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:03 pm  

With the current front row options (sangare included) we're not getting in the top 4.

Re: 2023 IN | Justin Sangare - 2 Yr - Expires: 2024 : Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:40 pm  

Absolutely right Seth. Its not just numbers at prop, its quality. Of our rotation we have one solid prop in Oledzki, three we have hopes for (Sangare, Holroyd, Walters) and two that look to be struggling with age (Prior) or generally poor (Tetevano). Tetevano, Prior and Oledzki have continually shown that as a group they cannot compete at all with Sts, and none of those three make big yards going forward.

In the back row we have fewer but the quality is higher - our first three of Martin, Bentley and Gannon are a higher quality than our best three props. They would also be expected to play close to 80 minutes if needed, whereas we absolutely have to rotate the props during a game.

Centres isn't a problem if Hardaker stays, and even less so if Sutcliffe stays as well. We've got Edwards and Simpson coming through and hopefully one or both will make it. We're well covered for fullback and the threequarters if Tindall stays. If anything we have lack of quality depth at halfback, although hopefully Sinfield will keep developing.

To me we need an absolute beast prop and possibly two. We need them even if some players we don't want hang around. Thompson hopefully will leave. It would make picking a 17 easier if Prior and/or Tetevano leaves, but regardless they are not top 4 material. There's no point signing another centre if we just get battered down the middle.

Re: 2023 IN | Justin Sangare - 2 Yr - Expires: 2024 : Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:27 am  

Agree with those above, prop is still the priority even with the sangare signing, probably followed by halfback depth. Centre will be fine if Hardaker and Sutcliffe stays and there is an expectation that Simpson/Edwards continue to develop. But we are far too quickly relying on an 18 year old or shuffling Leeming or Johnson (who hopefully will have a crack at 9 now Dwyer is going) if one of Austin or Sezer is out, and let’s be fair, Sezers injury record has proven a need for that cover.

The only reason id look at a second row would be if they offer something completely different. All our players seem to fit the high effort, workhorse type. It’d be nice to have an Ali type thrown into the mix, though granted they don’t grow on trees. Probably same in the props itd be nice to have an absolute wrecking ball like paasi even if they aren’t always the best defensively.

Re: 2023 IN | Justin Sangare - 2 Yr - Expires: 2024 : Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:10 am  

Once were Loiners wrote:

Absolutely right Seth. Its not just numbers at prop, its quality. Of our rotation we have one solid prop in Oledzki, three we have hopes for (Sangare, Holroyd, Walters) and two that look to be struggling with age (Prior) or generally poor (Tetevano). Tetevano, Prior and Oledzki have continually shown that as a group they cannot compete at all with Sts, and none of those three make big yards going forward

I agree we won’t match Saints at prop in 2023, but I just don’t think we can allocate even more of our salary cap to prop. We already know Tetevano takes up £150k of the cap (and that’s very poor value for us) with a bit of guess work Prior maybe £100k Oledzki £80k Sangare £50k Holroyd £35k Walters £25k, I’m going to estimate we’re already using £440k of the cap on our props for 2023.

We’d need to spend around £60-100k to bring in a prop who’s half decent, I’d estimate that would take us up to 1/4 of the salary cap on props, which is just too much to have a balanced squad imo, we’ve already seen this season when we’re without Newman we don’t have a decent centre and are lacking in attack.

We could look to bring your in a young inexperienced player like Walters, but with Holroyd as our 5th and Walters our 6th prop I think this would be unnecessary. When Tetevano and Prior leave they need to be replaced with top quality prop forwards, but we can’t justify it while they’re still with us.

Re: 2023 IN | Justin Sangare - 2 Yr - Expires: 2024 : Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:18 am  

Barrie’s Glass Eye wrote:

Agree with those above, prop is still the priority even with the sangare signing, probably followed by halfback depth. Centre will be fine if Hardaker and Sutcliffe stays and there is an expectation that Simpson/Edwards continue to develop. But we are far too quickly relying on an 18 year old or shuffling Leeming or Johnson (who hopefully will have a crack at 9 now Dwyer is going) if one of Austin or Sezer is out, and let’s be fair, Sezers injury record has proven a need for that cover .

I see Hardaker as first choice full back for 2023 (presuming he stays, he could leave and a new player be brought in) and Myler as back up for both full back and half back. If Hardaker is 1st choice full back we don’t want him to be filling in at centre all the time, Full back is his position not centre.

Sutcliffe at centre is our weakest player in the starting 17 and where we need to upgrade, Sutcliffe can stay as 3rd choice centre and a bit of 2nd row cover or move on.

Full back
Hardaker, Myler, Walker (possibly)

Centre
Newman, Sutcliffe, Simpson

Half back
Austin, Sezer, Myler, Sinfield

Hooker
Leeming, Johnson, O’Connor