Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:58 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

And there's not a lot of players who can be good but not great in so many attributes yet become one of the best players in the country.

Sinfield was one of the most talented youngsters this country has ever produced - simple just accept it from those who saw him when he was a teenager. UK RL hasn't produced a youngster of that quality since.

Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:23 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Sinfield was one of the most talented youngsters this country has ever produced - simple just accept it from those who saw him when he was a teenager. UK RL hasn't produced a youngster of that quality since.

James Graham was the best i have seen. I saw Kevin before his academy days even but Graham was something else. The 1st time i saw him he was playing in the centre 2 yr below the age he was playing and he was best player on the park by a country mile. He was 14 playing at 16 level for Thatto Heath before he moved to Blackbrook where he basically won them the National Cup single handedly.

No bigger fan of Kevin than myself but Graham as a kid was the best i have seen.

Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:19 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Quite as i said previously on this very thread.

Its not as if he isn't playing against fully grown men every week - how many games had Sam Hallas played in the championship before thrown in. Nobody can seriously think he is more physically ready than Baldwinson?

Has Hallas asked for his release though? Just like the calls for Hardaker not to be picked again then why should Baldwinson if he's asked to leave?

Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:25 pm  

DHM wrote:

Amor out, Griffin and Moore in.

We have absolutely nothing to lose by giving Baldwinson a game or several, in fact just the opposite. Perfect situation to see how he would go against SL opposition. He's a prop, he doesn't have to run the game all he had to do is his job up the middle. What's the worst that could happen? Results are now completely irrelevant there is nothing to win.

Results are irrelevant now but when they were it's hardly a crazy call when you're without several experienced players not to drop another for yet another youngster. How many with limited/virtually no SL in a side at once if you're trying to fight your way out of poor form?

Like I said before, if he held on for a few more weeks he might well have gotten those appearances that Hallas got.

Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:45 am  

Marty Grrrrrrrrrr! wrote:

James Graham was the best i have seen. I saw Kevin before his academy days even but Graham was something else. The 1st time i saw him he was playing in the centre 2 yr below the age he was playing and he was best player on the park by a country mile. He was 14 playing at 16 level for Thatto Heath before he moved to Blackbrook where he basically won them the National Cup single handedly.

No bigger fan of Kevin than myself but Graham as a kid was the best i have seen.

We must agree to differ. The point was Printer was trying to make was Sinfield got where he was because of his hard work and that there were players out there with more talent. Most who saw Sinfield as a junior will tell you they never saw a junior with more talent.

Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:01 am  

ThePrinter wrote:

Results are irrelevant now but when they were it's hardly a crazy call when you're without several experienced players not to drop another for yet another youngster. How many with limited/virtually no SL in a side at once if you're trying to fight your way out of poor form?

Like I said before, if he held on for a few more weeks he might well have gotten those appearances that Hallas got.

Who are these players who played earlier in the year with limited/no SL experience, i can only think of one Golding who played when Leeds had some chance of the top 8

You and others are saying Baldwinson is not getting a chance because we have not had injuries to props. Hallas has been picked as a hooker so how is Baldwinson going to get a game instead of Hallas?

Mulhern left because McDermott gave him a game against Huddersfield he missed a couple of tackles in a 20-20 draw iirc and was never given another chance. That is McDermott all over Walters misses heaps of tackles every time he is selected yet gets selected regularly - suppose he must have the right attitude, no quality but a good attitude.

Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:23 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Who are these players who played earlier in the year with limited/no SL experience, i can only think of one Golding who played when Leeds had some chance of the top 8

Sorry must've missed those 200+ career appearances of Lilley, Handley and Walters. Before this season Keinhorst had only started at centre for us 14 times, Sutcliffe in the halves just over 20 starts, hell even Garbutt doesn't have a load of first team appearances under his belt in his career.

Sal Paradise wrote:

You and others are saying Baldwinson is not getting a chance because we have not had injuries to props. Hallas has been picked as a hooker so how is Baldwinson going to get a game instead of Hallas?

Hallas came on for Mullally at Magic weekend, went back off again for Cuthbertson. He might have done a little bit of dummy half work when on but we still had our 6,7,9 on for the full 80 so very likely Baldwinson could've had that spot.

Sal Paradise wrote:

Mulhern left because McDermott gave him a game against Huddersfield he missed a couple of tackles in a 20-20 draw iirc and was never given another chance. That is McDermott all over

Or our senior props stayed fit and we added Garbutt and because we were pushing hard for the league McDermott had the crazy idea of picking his strongest props available.......to understand that it would require common sense though.

Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:21 am  

ThePrinter wrote:

Sorry must've missed those 200+ career appearances of Lilley, Handley and Walters. Before this season Keinhorst had only started at centre for us 14 times, Sutcliffe in the halves just over 20 starts, hell even Garbutt doesn't have a load of first team appearances under his belt in his career.

Hallas came on for Mullally at Magic weekend, went back off again for Cuthbertson. He might have done a little bit of dummy half work when on but we still had our 6,7,9 on for the full 80 so very likely Baldwinson could've had that spot.

Or our senior props stayed fit and we added Garbutt and because we were pushing hard for the league McDermott had the crazy idea of picking his strongest props available.......to understand that it would require common sense though.

Agree re Lilley - forgot about him, Handley played a good deal the season before, Walters played and scored in a grand final, Keinhorst had played centre in a CC final - how much experience do these players need before you suggest they are not rookies?

Hallas - are you seriously suggesting he was used a prop? even you don't believe that - no way Baldwinson could have had that role.

The job of the coach is to develop the squad - perhaps if he had more faith in the youth he wouldn't have needed to waste monies on the likes of Galloway and Mullally - maybe he would not now been bottom of the league? He also might have avoided flogging the likes of Cuthbertson to a point where he misses so many games - but of course that would have required some common sense wouldn't it?

Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:39 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Agree re Lilley - forgot about him, Handley played a good deal the season before, Walters played and scored in a grand final, Keinhorst had played centre in a CC final - how much experience do these players need before you suggest they are not rookies?

A lot more than the 15-25 games they had before his season started that's for sure.

Sal Paradise wrote:

- are you seriously suggesting he was used a prop? even you don't believe that - no way Baldwinson could have had that role.

No I'm not suggesting that, that's why I didn't say it. We still kept Burrow on the field so it wasn't really a role that needed doing in attack, he was effectively used as a body in the middle for a while in defence which Baldwinson could've been.

Sal Paradise wrote:

The job of the coach is to develop the squad - perhaps if he had more faith in the youth he wouldn't have needed to waste monies on the likes of Galloway and Mullally - maybe he would not now been bottom of the league? He also might have avoided flogging the likes of Cuthbertson to a point where he misses so many games - but of course that would have required some common sense wouldn't it?

I agree he could've placed more faith in youngsters at times but I also see why he hasn't at times wih regards to injuries or lack of them in a certain position and league table position......however that doesn't mean he hasn't picked someone purely out of spite because they went to NZ or missed a tackle......that's just agenda driven idiocy.

Re: HARDAKER TRANSFER LISTED : Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:04 pm  

I'm not one for playing young players for its own sake, but traditionally a time of injuries and poor form is exactly when you'd expect to see them given a go. Despite BM's nonsensical mutterings about the top 4, then the top 8 and now some vague garbage about the team being able to do something "special" at the end of the year, in terms of winning things the season ended a long time ago. In those circumstances Baldwinson is exactly the kind of player who should have been given a chance weeks ago, if for no other reason than to give a kick up the backside to the other props.

As for Hardaker, it will be interesting to see what happens. The Raiders have apparently ruled themselves out. That probably leaves just the Knights and the Titans. I'm not that sure the Titans will be falling over themselves as they're playing far better this year having got rid of most of their party boys - including Falloon. I'm sure the Knights would be interested as they have a dreadful squad, although their best back is also playing full back (Dane Gagai). But if they're the only interested party I can't see them forking out anything for Hardaker.