Re: 2022 | RL World Cup : Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:24 pm  

Jack Burton wrote:

The right edge was dreadful. Welsby had the worst game I've seen him have, I'm not sure I've seen anyone knock on passing to themselves before. Watkins was probably even worse, the bombed try in the first half was especially poor.

McClorum's basic skills are terrible, his distribution is as bad as Dwyer's

Welsby is a flat track bully. I'd have Myler before him every day.


The new Leon Pryce - World Hide and Seek Champion.

Re: 2022 | RL World Cup : Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:31 pm  

Basic errors in the last 5 mins. Whitehead flinging the ball in the floor with 20s to go in drop goal territory, followed by welsby dropping his own pass to himself then a needless forward pass. Even the intercept was unnecessary. We should have carried on ploughing down the middle.

Said before the tournament we'd get done by Samoa, I just thought it would be the first game. When the going got tough we weren't good enough. Walmsley and Lomax would have improved us, but wouldn't have got us even close to Australia. At least I can enjoy the occasion next week, without the depression that would inevitably have resulted from England getting there. Good for the game that Samoa make the final.

Re: 2022 | RL World Cup : Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:47 pm  

krisleeds wrote:

Welsby is a flat track bully. I'd have Myler before him every day.


The new Leon Pryce - World Hide and Seek Champion.

Give over. Things didn't go well for him today, but that's the first time in his short but already distinguished career where he's been average in a big game. At 21, he's still a year younger than Harry Newman. As for Myler being better - have you been in the pub this afternoon?

Re: 2022 | RL World Cup : Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:48 pm  

Lprhino wrote:

Not sure agree with all of that. In terms of Hill and Cooper, easy swap for Lees and Mik who are both in the squad and performance wise were significantly better over the whole tournament. Hooker wise there would be mcshane, leeming, Clark or Akers who is in the squad who I would say are all considerably better than mcllorum.

Welsby should have been full back and snyed in the halves of the plan was kick deep and apply pressure.

England had one plan all tournament which was we get over the top of you with quick play the balls and rush defence. Surprise surprise that as soon as they can’t really get the quick play the ball and get over the top they look all over the place. That is completely down to Wane and his tactics and the players he picked.

Samoa didn’t even go a tactical master class they simply slowed down the play the ball, early on the shifted the contact slightly wider and England just didn’t really seem clear on what to do.

Poor squad selection and poor tactical coaching is the reason England aren’t in the final.

Absolutely spot on post

Re: 2022 | RL World Cup : Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:58 pm  

Swoggy Loiner wrote:

Lprhino wrote:

Not sure agree with all of that. In terms of Hill and Cooper, easy swap for Lees and Mik who are both in the squad and performance wise were significantly better over the whole tournament. Hooker wise there would be mcshane, leeming, Clark or Akers who is in the squad who I would say are all considerably better than mcllorum.

Welsby should have been full back and snyed in the halves of the plan was kick deep and apply pressure.

England had one plan all tournament which was we get over the top of you with quick play the balls and rush defence. Surprise surprise that as soon as they can’t really get the quick play the ball and get over the top they look all over the place. That is completely down to Wane and his tactics and the players he picked.

Samoa didn’t even go a tactical master class they simply slowed down the play the ball, early on the shifted the contact slightly wider and England just didn’t really seem clear on what to do.

Poor squad selection and poor tactical coaching is the reason England aren’t in the final.

Absolutely spot on post

Lprhino wrote:

Not sure agree with all of that. In terms of Hill and Cooper, easy swap for Lees and Mik who are both in the squad and performance wise were significantly better over the whole tournament. Hooker wise there would be mcshane, leeming, Clark or Akers who is in the squad who I would say are all considerably better than mcllorum.

Welsby should have been full back and snyed in the halves of the plan was kick deep and apply pressure.

England had one plan all tournament which was we get over the top of you with quick play the balls and rush defence. Surprise surprise that as soon as they can’t really get the quick play the ball and get over the top they look all over the place. That is completely down to Wane and his tactics and the players he picked.

Samoa didn’t even go a tactical master class they simply slowed down the play the ball, early on the shifted the contact slightly wider and England just didn’t really seem clear on what to do.

Poor squad selection and poor tactical coaching is the reason England aren’t in the final.

Spot on LP.
Selection has done for us today.
Yes, many of the players had bad days, but the selection of Mcilorum over any of those you mention has backfired.
Samoa targeted him and he was found wanting in D and his distribution was awful.
And Lees should have played ahead of Cooper.

Unfortunately, despite the early excitement and optimism, the tournament will be viewed as a failure for England.

But agree with Arthur, great drama for a semi final.

Re: 2022 | RL World Cup : Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:07 pm  

Lprhino wrote:

Not sure agree with all of that. In terms of Hill and Cooper, easy swap for Lees and Mik who are both in the squad and performance wise were significantly better over the whole tournament. Hooker wise there would be mcshane, leeming, Clark or Akers who is in the squad who I would say are all considerably better than mcllorum.

Welsby should have been full back and snyed in the halves of the plan was kick deep and apply pressure.

England had one plan all tournament which was we get over the top of you with quick play the balls and rush defence. Surprise surprise that as soon as they can’t really get the quick play the ball and get over the top they look all over the place. That is completely down to Wane and his tactics and the players he picked.

Samoa didn’t even go a tactical master class they simply slowed down the play the ball, early on the shifted the contact slightly wider and England just didn’t really seem clear on what to do.

Poor squad selection and poor tactical coaching is the reason England aren’t in the final.

I would have picked Lee's over Cooper. I think Mik is a super player but I don't see any outcry outside of biased Leeds fans (I'm one of them) about his non selection. He had his chance against France and didn't do enough. That's sport. Ackers also got his chance against France and his defence really let him down. Just check out the highlights. McShane has had a few chances in an England shirt and achieved very little. He like many others (including some who played) struggle to make the huge jump from SL to top class test match Rugby. Ultimately it's still the same as it been for 40 odd years I've been watching - we just don't have anywhere near enough world class players.

Re: 2022 | RL World Cup : Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:14 pm  

ArthurClues wrote:

I would have picked Lee's over Cooper. I think Mik is a super player but I don't see any outcry outside of biased Leeds fans (I'm one of them) about his non selection. He had his chance against France and didn't do enough. That's sport. Ackers also got his chance against France and his defence really let him down. Just check out the highlights. McShane has had a few chances in an England shirt and achieved very little. He like many others (including some who played) struggle to make the huge jump from SL to top class test match Rugby. Ultimately it's still the same as it been for 40 odd years I've been watching - we just don't have anywhere near enough world class players.

Can’t argue mate. There is hope though because I genuinely think we have some super talent coming through the system who should be ready for the next World Cup or even test series.

Wane has basically gone for loyalty and past reputation over current form and got found out today. Sadly I’m not sure any current Leeds player would have made a difference.

England need to develop a world class player or two in key positions; hooker being one.

Re: 2022 | RL World Cup : Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:32 pm  

KaeruJim wrote:

Can’t argue mate. There is hope though because I genuinely think we have some super talent coming through the system who should be ready for the next World Cup or even test series.

Wane has basically gone for loyalty and past reputation over current form and got found out today. Sadly I’m not sure any current Leeds player would have made a difference.

England need to develop a world class player or two in key positions; hooker being one.

Yep. Hopefully from a Leeds perspective we'll have Mik, Tom H, Gannon and Newman involved in the near future. It's a damming indictment on the last decade that there are no England regulars in the current team. In terms of halves and hookers our best chance is young players following the likes of Farnworth and Young and going straight to the NRL. Depressing but true.

Re: 2022 | RL World Cup : Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:50 pm  

I think a few above have hit the nail on the head. I personally think he went for loyalty and experience over those who have been playing well and have been in form. You mentioned Mik against France but he was in the dream team and where was Hill? Lees has performed mikes better than Cooper who has been average for wire and Wigan.

Mcllorum hasn’t been in the top 5 English hookers in super league this year.

Yes we need better players, especially in key positions. But generally the players in form who have played well all year should in my opinion be in the team.

Re: 2022 | RL World Cup : Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:12 pm  

Lprhino wrote:

I think a few above have hit the nail on the head. I personally think he went for loyalty and experience over those who have been playing well and have been in form. You mentioned Mik against France but he was in the dream team and where was Hill? Lees has performed mikes better than Cooper who has been average for wire and Wigan.

Mcllorum hasn’t been in the top 5 English hookers in super league this year.

Yes we need better players, especially in key positions. But generally the players in form who have played well all year should in my opinion be in the team.

Think we'll just gave to agree to disagree. I'm no Mcllorum fan. He's an absolute grub of a player, but the fact is (in my opinion) none of the hookers you mention are clearly better. Leeming, for instance, is no longer first choice at Leeds. The sad truth is that the best hooker in the league by a country mile no longer plays test rugby. He would have made a difference today. As for Wane, I've no doubt he'll eventually join the mountainous heap of ex England/GB coaches who just didn’t pick the right players. Funny that.