: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:09 am  

DISA wrote:

Is this really a thread you should be commenting on? You know bugger all about juniors or their development. Stick to first team spin from the club, its your only source of information it appears.

If that is a criteria for posting delete your username and sell your PC as you know bugger all about anything, misery guts.

: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:11 am  

G1 wrote:

misery guts.

I bet thats not your worst insult of the day.

: Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:19 am  

DISA wrote:

I dont get that mate. Its complete boll0x to say we can't produce players every year, and sounds like an excuse.

I already pointed out that we have the biggest service area of any other team in Super League. Unless you are saying that despite that massive service area there is not always a future star every year, then I don't know what you mean.

What you are saying would be true for a club like Saints, Salford, Huddersfield. But not for a club like Leeds with the massive service area we have.

Either we are not identifying the right ones, or we are not coaching them properly to fullfill their development, if we don't have stars produced each year.

We certainly managed it perfectly well for a good 5 years between 2001 and 2006. So what's changed? For a start we went two years without a dedicted head of youth development. For a second we have fulfilled all the coaching roles with inexperienced ex players.

I don't think it's that simple - these things are always fairly cyclic IMHO.

Look at football - you have Manchester United who have the best resources in the world for junior development and poach kids from all over the world and yet they don't manage to produce new stars every year (at best they probably get 1-2 every three years). Also like Leeds they produce a lot more players that ultimately go on to play in the lower leagues or at 'lesser' sides.

: Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:25 am  

Vic Mackey wrote:

I don't think it's that simple - these things are always fairly cyclic IMHO.

Look at football - you have Manchester United who have the best resources in the world for junior development and poach kids from all over the world and yet they don't manage to produce new stars every year (at best they probably get 1-2 every three years). Also like Leeds they produce a lot more players that ultimately go on to play in the lower leagues or at 'lesser' sides.

I don't want to pish on your fire mate, and at lest you have come up with something constructive, but the Man U argument is a myth, and simply not true.

They continually produce the players ready, it is just felt they are not as good as the stars they already have in the team. you can only play 11 players at a time, and they have many more than that regarded as world stars. How many players do you think Man U have out on loan at any one time? They even have feeder clubs in 3 seperate countries in order to accomodate the production line.

: Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:40 am  

DISA wrote:

I don't want to pish on your fire mate, and at lest you have come up with something constructive, but the Man U argument is a myth, and simply not true.

They continually produce the players ready, it is just felt they are not as good as the stars they already have in the team. you can only play 11 players at a time, and they have many more than that regarded as world stars. How many players do you think Man U have out on loan at any one time? They even have feeder clubs in 3 seperate countries in order to accomodate the production line.

Lets not move the goalposts.

The standard you applied to Leeds was that we should be able to produce "a future star" every year.

Apply this same standard to Manchester United and my argument is sound.

Man United currently have about 6 players in their main squad of about 20 that came from their youth team...three of these are in their 30's. Take their first 30 or so players and you can probably double this number - but given that the range of ages is about 20 years that's still way below a player a year. Also remember that this includes a "freak crop" from the early 90's

: Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:07 pm  

DISA wrote:

I bet thats not your worst insult of the day.

Luckily for you I'm very busy this week so I may not be around much to keep you and the other assorted fekkwitts in check, or insult you.

Have fun in my absence.

: Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:21 pm  

Vic Mackey wrote:

The standard you applied to Leeds was that we should be able to produce "a future star" every year.

Nope. I think Leeds with the service area size they have should be producing "future stars" every year.

Of course your not going to produce a Andy Farrell, Adrian Morley, Kevin Sinfield, Danny McGuire, James Roby, etc, each year.

But there is absolutely not excuse for not producing the next Carl Ablett, Luke Burgess, Gareth Hock, Paul Clough, Ryan Atkins, etc. These players are out there in the service area. Players who are better than these at similar ages. Its how we are developing them through the system now that is the problem.

Lets put it another way, if it was as cyclic as you say, then the emphasis on a club to remain challengers would be to go through stages, of produce, buy, produce, buy. The aim of having a dominant team produced from homegrown players is simply a pipe dream then? It would never happen.

: Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:49 pm  

Dont Leeds produce players every year who then go on to fill up other SL teams?

Isnt McIlorum from Leeds? He was highly rated.

: Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:54 pm  

Kifaru wrote:

Didn't Leeds produce players every year who then went on to fill up other SL teams?

Edited for accuracy.

: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:07 pm  

Both my boys have come through the junior ranks at Kippax and Lock Lane there were some great kids in their leagues that you think should be starting to rear their head - sadly it doesn't seem to be the case at the moment.

I think to simply blame the club is only part of the story - having McDermot as head of youth development is a joke to me as is having Poching as academy coach.

1. You have to also question the desire of the players perhaps the Sinfield's/McGuire's/Burrow had more desire than their current counterparts - too many good kids seem to never reach their potential.

2. What is the role of the academy is it to develop players potential to ready them for first team football or to win the academy league?

3. If you were a top quality half back and you had the choice of Leeds or Castleford where would you go - at Leeds your chances are slim at best same goes for loose forward etc.

4. Finally the club maybe concentrates its scouting on filling positions where they have a weakness - Watkins emerging is no fluke the fact that Leeds have a weakness in the centres and they have found a potential star is no fluke IMO but a targeted piece of scouting.