Re: Jamie Jones-Buchanan : Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:09 pm  

Played very well last night. Was a leader in the second half

Re: Jamie Jones-Buchanan : Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:27 pm  

Good to see JJB responding with a robust big effort display against Bradford. Still made some missed tackles but made up for it with his carries busts, clean breaks and top metres

Re: Jamie Jones-Buchanan : Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:11 pm  

Why is it 'good to see' something people have a right to expect?

Jones-Buchanan making a big effort kind of goes without saying doesn't it. The effort was never in doubt (IMO), decision making and technique has been the recent issue. It's possible to be too enthusiastic in defence where the need is for a collective co-ordinated effort rather than a one-man charge.

Re: Jamie Jones-Buchanan : Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:33 pm  

tvoc wrote:

Why is it 'good to see' something people have a right to expect?

Jones-Buchanan making a big effort kind of goes without saying doesn't it. The effort was never in doubt (IMO), decision making and technique has been the recent issue. It's possible to be too enthusiastic in defence where the need is for a collective co-ordinated effort rather than a one-man charge.

JJB had an off day against Wigan last week and was critcised for it. Therefore I commented that it was 'good to see JJB responding with a robust big effort display against Bradford". JJB has consistently made much bigger efforts than most of his forward colleagues over a number of years typified by his Player of the year award last season.

Against Bradford JJB produced a bigger effort than his colleagues once again, making 148 metres and with his "one man charges" made 3 clean breaks and 6 tackle busts in addition to 27 tackles......only old man JP and youngster Ward coming close. If you believe that "people have a right to expect" this level of effort then where are your comments on those that didn't reach this level?

IMO JJB has struggled with match fitness and form since his injury lay off and has maybe tried a bit too hard to regain his timing. Taking into consideration also that if, as is rumoured, he was asked to take on a specific defensive role against Wigan to mark the elusive Tomkins, it is unreasonable for you to suggest he has issues of technique and decision making. Are you suggesting that he always has had both these "issues"? or are they something he has suddenly aquired?

Re: Jamie Jones-Buchanan : Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:46 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Against Bradford JJB produced a bigger effort than his colleagues once again, making 148 metres and with his "one man charges" made 3 clean breaks and 6 tackle busts in addition to 27 tackles......only old man JP and youngster Ward coming close. If you believe that "people have a right to expect" this level of effort then where are your comments on those that didn't reach this level?

He missed 5 tackles, following on from 6 missed tackles against Wigan. He would be better off making 22 tackles and missing non.

148 metres is a commendable effort. Although when you take off the two passes that put him clean through gaps from his team mates, and then deduct 2 carries, his metres per carry is again very low.

All that said, but for the defence I thought he had a good game on Friday. But you would have to be pretty biased to not see there is a major problem with his tackling technique at the moment.

Re: Jamie Jones-Buchanan : Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:06 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote: JJB had an off day against Wigan last week and was critcised for it. Therefore I commented that it was 'good to see JJB responding with a robust big effort display against Bradford". JJB has consistently made much bigger efforts than most of his forward colleagues over a number of years typified by his Player of the year award last season. Did the stats support your view Jones-Buchanan had an off day V Wigan? Have you commented on his actual performance V Bradford or just his stats V Bradford? Juan Cornetto wrote: Against Bradford JJB produced a bigger effort than his colleagues once again, making 148 metres and with his "one man charges" made 3 clean breaks and 6 tackle busts in addition to 27 tackles......only old man JP and youngster Ward coming close. If you believe that "people have a right to expect" this level of effort then where are your comments on those that didn't reach this level? Is this view based on the performance or on the stats of the performance? The Opta stats here : http://www.superleague.co.uk/match_report/7589 show how Bradford have been credited with four try assists despite only scoring three tries so 100% bullet-proof as ever. Juan Cornetto wrote: IMO JJB has struggled with match fitness and form since his injury lay off and has maybe tried a bit too hard to regain his timing. Taking into consideration also that if, as is rumoured, he was asked to take on a specific defensive role against Wigan to mark the elusive Tomkins, it is unreasonable for you to suggest he has issues of technique and decision making. Are you suggesting that he always has had both these "issues"? or are they something he has suddenly aquired? Unless Tomkins plays for all Leeds' recent opponents I'd say it's a technique issue that needs working on. Charging out of a defensive line trying to make a hero play is often easily defeated by a pass releasing a runner through the gap left unattended.

Juan Cornetto wrote: JJB had an off day against Wigan last week and was critcised for it. Therefore I commented that it was 'good to see JJB responding with a robust big effort display against Bradford". JJB has consistently made much bigger efforts than most of his forward colleagues over a number of years typified by his Player of the year award last season. Did the stats support your view Jones-Buchanan had an off day V Wigan? Have you commented on his actual performance V Bradford or just his stats V Bradford? Juan Cornetto wrote: Against Bradford JJB produced a bigger effort than his colleagues once again, making 148 metres and with his "one man charges" made 3 clean breaks and 6 tackle busts in addition to 27 tackles......only old man JP and youngster Ward coming close. If you believe that "people have a right to expect" this level of effort then where are your comments on those that didn't reach this level? Is this view based on the performance or on the stats of the performance? The Opta stats here : http://www.superleague.co.uk/match_report/7589 show how Bradford have been credited with four try assists despite only scoring three tries so 100% bullet-proof as ever. Juan Cornetto wrote: IMO JJB has struggled with match fitness and form since his injury lay off and has maybe tried a bit too hard to regain his timing. Taking into consideration also that if, as is rumoured, he was asked to take on a specific defensive role against Wigan to mark the elusive Tomkins, it is unreasonable for you to suggest he has issues of technique and decision making. Are you suggesting that he always has had both these "issues"? or are they something he has suddenly aquired? Unless Tomkins plays for all Leeds' recent opponents I'd say it's a technique issue that needs working on. Charging out of a defensive line trying to make a hero play is often easily defeated by a pass releasing a runner through the gap left unattended.

Re: Jamie Jones-Buchanan : Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:40 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

He missed 5 tackles, following on from 6 missed tackles against Wigan. He would be better off making 22 tackles and missing non.

148 metres is a commendable effort. Although when you take off the two passes that put him clean through gaps from his team mates, and then deduct 2 carries, his metres per carry is again very low.

All that said, but for the defence I thought he had a good game on Friday. But you would have to be pretty biased to not see there is a major problem with his tackling technique at the moment.

Well Ablett is top of the missed tackle league at Leeds with Sinfield 2nd. If you are putting in a regular high number of tackles per game it is likely you will also have a higher number of misses too. It is no coincidence that our top tacklers Delaney, JP, Ablett and in most seasons JJB are also first up on a kick chase when missed tackles can often occur and they are more often first in to the tackle or make one on one tackles...and so also have a higher chance of a miss being awarded when a colleague gets the tackle stat for a player they have half stopped.

To suggest we would be better off if these same top tacklers made fewer tackles to avoid their misses assumes a) all the missed tackles were crucial and b) that someone else will undertake to make those newly discarded tackles that often really are crucial.

Why should you want to denigrate JJB's 148 metres? He was backing up and in the right position to go through the gap, as he often does, which is technically good. He makes enough of the hard yards as it is so why does this bit of good decision making not count?

A player of JJB's experience over 1000's of successful tackles knows all about tackling technique. It is not something you forget. I re1peat IMO his timing and full match fitness have not fully recovered since his in jury layoff as was JP's and McGuire's.

Re: Jamie Jones-Buchanan : Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:07 pm  

As usual tvoc 'plays the slippery eel' and fails to answer questions but still asks his own questions. tvoc wrote: Did the stats support your view Jones-Buchanan had an off day V Wigan? Have you commented on his actual performance V Bradford or just his stats V Bradford?. The missed tackle stat does support my view (as did my eyes) and yes if you care to look back on this thread I posted my comment on his actual performance tvoc wrote: Is this view based on the performance or on the stats of the performance? . The stats back up my view that he was M of the M. tvoc wrote: The Opta stats here : http://www.superleague.co.uk/match_report/7589 show how Bradford have been credited with four try assists despite only scoring three tries so 100% bullet-proof as ever. . So does this mean all the other stats are wrong and if so please record which stats are wrong in your opinion. tvoc wrote: Unless Tomkins plays for all Leeds' recent opponents I'd say it's a technique issue that needs working on. Charging out of a defensive line trying to make a hero play is often easily defeated by a pass releasing a runner through the gap left unattended. You in your experience choose to say it is a technique issue which I can understand. But as I have said already, IMO I do not believe a player who has made 1000's of sucessful tackles over many years forgets his technique. I think he has not got his timing right neither is he fully match fit since returning from injury. This is quite normal and has been the same for JP and McGuire and many others. I do not think JJB has been "trying to make a hero play" and this comment is unkind. He may also have been trying a bit too hard and the body has not matched the intention or it maybe he is used to leading the defensive line previously and others are not keeping up with him. Only my opinion mind.

As usual tvoc 'plays the slippery eel' and fails to answer questions but still asks his own questions. tvoc wrote: Did the stats support your view Jones-Buchanan had an off day V Wigan? Have you commented on his actual performance V Bradford or just his stats V Bradford?. The missed tackle stat does support my view (as did my eyes) and yes if you care to look back on this thread I posted my comment on his actual performance tvoc wrote: Is this view based on the performance or on the stats of the performance? . The stats back up my view that he was M of the M. tvoc wrote: The Opta stats here : http://www.superleague.co.uk/match_report/7589 show how Bradford have been credited with four try assists despite only scoring three tries so 100% bullet-proof as ever. . So does this mean all the other stats are wrong and if so please record which stats are wrong in your opinion. tvoc wrote: Unless Tomkins plays for all Leeds' recent opponents I'd say it's a technique issue that needs working on. Charging out of a defensive line trying to make a hero play is often easily defeated by a pass releasing a runner through the gap left unattended. You in your experience choose to say it is a technique issue which I can understand. But as I have said already, IMO I do not believe a player who has made 1000's of sucessful tackles over many years forgets his technique. I think he has not got his timing right neither is he fully match fit since returning from injury. This is quite normal and has been the same for JP and McGuire and many others. I do not think JJB has been "trying to make a hero play" and this comment is unkind. He may also have been trying a bit too hard and the body has not matched the intention or it maybe he is used to leading the defensive line previously and others are not keeping up with him. Only my opinion mind.

Re: Jamie Jones-Buchanan : Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:59 am  

Gotcha wrote:

148 metres is a commendable effort. Although when you take off the two passes that put him clean through gaps from his team mates, and then deduct 2 carries, his metres per carry is again very low.

As the mayor of Crazy Town it's perfectly understandable that you would arbitrarily ignore certain aspects of a players statistical input in order to negatively asses a players statistical input.

Re: Jamie Jones-Buchanan : Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:03 am  

For me JJB is one of the key players in the success of this Leeds side, like all players he will have peaks and troughs in his form. As fans we need to accept that no matter how popular a particular player is. Grasping at straws - he was supposed to marking Tomkins - to explain his poor performance does no one any favours.

Stats can be made to say anything depending on how you interpret them - the difficulty is weighting each element to get an overall rating - I see the margin metre has bitten the dust!!